Who goes there?

[dwellersinthemirage]

Hi all!

It's been 14 days since I started this thread, " Who goes there?" (last Sun May 26, 2013.) In all the ensuing time, not one, no, not even one remotely satisfactory solid rebuttal regarding my allegation concerning the the counterfeit NAPs has emerged. I find this non-reaction quite curious as well as revealing. (Much can be ascertained not only by that which is said, but also by that which is disregarded and excluded.) So I ask, does this poverty of response by the old masters of this list construe a sin of omission amounting to a glaring admission of guilt?

Instead of stepping up to the plate, why have these heavy hitters preferred to remain out-of-sight in the dugout? Rather than demonstrating to all that they have the courage of their convictions, these old wizards have merely sat back and snickered as a handful of their pesky horseflies, (Beelzebub's emissaries?) have been attempting to divert my Djinn=NAPs topic by fouling the atmosphere with their hubris and vulgarity. (I would think it an embarrassment to those a little higher up the pecking order to allow such pawns to so ineptly speak for them.) At least we have had a little comic relief. <smile>

Will no one amongst all the more mature, seasoned magickal practitioners hereabout come to the defense of their particular exalted master of time and space, thereby exonerating their questionable momentum for me while simultaneously neutralizing my Djinn=NAPs proposition in one masterful fell swoop? That should be mere child's play for these genuises!

Why haven't any of these descended ascended masters populating this list emerged from the shadows to weigh in on my charge that the Djinn=NAPs?

Come out, come out, where ever you are!

For instance, I thought by now that at least one of their beloved heroes, such as Aiwass, (Crowley's avowed Guardian Angel) [image] http://www.blastedtower.com/wp-content/ ... 04/Lam.jpg would have whispered something amazingly clever into their eager ears by which to blast me. Or what about any of their myriad other exalted mahatmas dredged from the depths such as the goetia spirits with whom they cavort? [image] http://z.about.com/d/altreligion/1/0/Z/ ... magick.jpg
Or, why don't these "gods" at least furnish their human hosts with a scripted reply suitable enough to elucidate and justify their master/slave codependency? (hosts, as in biology, "the animal or plant on which or in which another organism lives.") Let's part the curtain to see what is actually happening on the backstage of appearances so that all may know exactly who or what is pulling the strings of the magickal NAP marionettes; what is really going on behind all the smoke-and-mirrors, the dog-and-pony-show, the razzmatazz and razzledazzle?

Remember everyone, this is the Chinese Year of the Black Snake wherein delusion and deception are common, so stay alert! "Pluto, the planet of deep inner purging and miraculous transformation during 2013 year of the Snake is in a stressful aspect to action planet Mars and rebel game changer Uranus. Pluto exposes what is hidden through a deep revealing of subconscious material. Slowly we begin to see the reasons for things, we understand the root cause of some dysfunction. With Pluto in Capricorn it's likely that the institutions of society will be exposed, darker purposes will be revealed. The dark forces that have ruled unhindered in the past are now being exposed. We humans are waking up, starting to smell the coffee." see: http://www.gotohoroscope.com/2013-horoscope/

So saying, were this an earthly court of law, an indictment against this erudite list's egregore could justifiably be issued, charging it with the egregious crime of aiding and abetting the Vengeful Djinn, who are the avowed enemies of the human race.

(The purpose of an indictment is to inform an accused individual of the charge against him or her so that the person will be able to prepare a defense.)

I do regard the following two statements (#1 and #2) as being mutually exclusive, (of or pertaining to a situation involving two or more events, possibilities etc., in which the occurrence of one precludes the occurrence of the other)

Therefore I must conclude that the reason (take your pick) for the reticence of these evocationonline ringmasters to come forward into the daylight for examination is due to:

1. They are fully cognizent of their actions. These old masters amongst us realize, spot-on, how correct my ad hoc Djinn=NAPs theory is, and so they want to obscure the unpleasant consequences stemming from that fact.

or

2. They are totally clueless. These old masters are blissfully ignorant of the true nature of the non-human intelligences with whom they interface, and consequently unwittingly evangelize their tacit collusion in glowing terms that inadvertently ensnare others too naive to escape victimization.

Since either one or the other of the above situations must be true, I conclude that either predicament #1 or #2 is the reason why none of the old masters around here are able to proffer any logical rationale supporting a defense capable of countering my Djinn=NAPs accusation. Either way, it is a sorry state of affairs!

This determination explains why none of these old master's, (nor their underlings) defense can ever rise above vacuous non sequitur after non sequitur, as shown by the recent futile attempts by my detractors to discredit my person while ignoring my Djinn=NAPs main point under consideration.

Now recall how Jack Palance, playing the part of the grizzled old cowpoke in the 1991 movie "City Slickers", proffered this bit of pertinent wisdom to his charge, Mitch, (played by Billy Crystal), giving him a bit of life advice:

"Curly: Do you know what the secret of life is?
[holds up one finger] This.
Mitch: Your finger?
Curly: One thing. Just one thing. You stick to that and the rest don't mean s***.
Mitch: But, what is the "one thing?"

Curly: "That's what you have to find out."

.......

So I ask you all, what is your "one thing" (your salient life-guidance byword)?

What could this "one thing" be in terms of your preeminent magickal-life sentiment? Is it being filled to overflowing with technical data concerning magickal correspondences, symbols, rituals and correct pronunciations and the like? Or could it be a perennial wisdom aphorism such as "Know Thyself" thusly revealed through application of the universal solvent of UNDERSTANDING?

It seems to me, that, despite their protests to the contrary, the bedrock term "understanding" remains absent from these master's otherwise majestic magickal lexicon.

Maybe that is why the true relationship of the Djinn=NAPs has eluded their comprehension, because, with all their getting, they have failed to get wisdom. From what I have observed here on this list and elsewhere, such as these have, in their premature grasp for power and fame, foolishly omitted the first rule of spirit-contact, namely: "To know the true name of a thing is to have power over it."

- dweller

"...there's no such thing as the unknown. Only things temporarily hidden, temporarily not understood."
- Captain James T Kirk

[Provenant]

Hi all!<snip>

In the words of Carl Sagan, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

In your case, even any evidence at all, or at least the semblance of a chain-of-thought showing how you got to this conclusion.

You mention court, well D if you were the prosecutor, my client would be home free cuz I'd have had your case tossed pre-trial.

You squirted out an idea that you seem so proud of you can't believe that the rest of us aren't falling down in awe of your keen insight ...

Howz about we choose #3 ... that you haven't really presented anything at all that remotely leads to your conclusion.

[robstanley1]

Oh dear.

We now have an 'almighty' challenge from an evidently-ascended Master.

I'm bored now, and am happy to be the first to call Troll.


Dæmonicus

[FESU]

This is getting quite comical...I have a theory!
Dweller is actually a Djinn that is trying to associate himself with NAP spirits! How about that????
As a powerful Djinn, he is behind every spirits encounter in history!!!
My god this reminds me of the ancient aliens show on History channel...their logic pretty much resembles yours!
Still Dweller, I posted a reply and you never bothered to reply. For the sake of argument, just answer to my post in a logical structured manner and let's see what comes out of it!

[Pablo]

DWeller

Is it just me – but I find your tone to be at the very best rude and at worst down right insulting.

This is EM and the biase is very much towards practical magic which makes your entire OP to be insiginifcant because magics of the EM ilk are definitely of a pragmatic bent.

To return to your OP and tostay clearly on topic. I do not like Nap but I have a copy of it and have dipped into it from time to time. What becomes incredibly clear to me is that in many cases all that the author has done is to construct rituals around hermetic QBL. Hermetic QBL seems to hinge on Masoretic Hebrew religious practices. Whole chunks of the tree of life go back to the Torah and Bible in terms of phrases, concepts and the God and angelic names which mr Gray-Cobb successfully mangles in NAP.

I offer this as my interpretation because at the end of the day I am a magical pragmatist so provided it works for me I do not care as to the “True Provenance”

Rgds

pablo

[raum215]

I really can't understand what he wants.

And to ask if Aiwass told anyone anything? um, do you need help?

As for "horoscopes.com" as a credible source


and finally - black snake - um that is not the way chinese astrology works. This is a "Yin Water Snake" year.

The ten earthly branches (the yin and yang natures of the Wu Hsing or five elements) are appended to the animal at hand.

So - in a "bullet point" format - make your points, and in the busy nature of my life, I have the next two days off, i will try to get around to addressing them - not as an "Old Master" - for I am no such thing - but as a person who will address SPECIFICALLY the things you think people try to evade. I am not an Old Master, but i PERSONALLY am not afraid to answer or avoiding any answer. As every post seems to be a defense against someone else, and a reference back to your first post, I do not follow this thread. I am going to give you a shot to make a new post with EXACTLY what you think people are evading, and I will answer a good bit of respectfully asked. No diatribe, just SIMPLE questions - no need for a basis for the questions, or to try and sway my thoughts. This is not a answer EVERYONE may be able to support - it will however be mine. Consider it a gesture of respect for your curiosity.

Also, please state your bias - YOUR OWN BIAS. Mine is that the word Djinn is (as I thought I said here) cognate to the same root of Genius, which comes from VERY old roots - and has the same context. I do not demonize spirits, especially not based on words in languages I do not speak. But a Mercurial Genius is spoken of in many an ancient book, and other effects. If it meets with the use of similar words in the students of Socrates, its use is as a sort of tutelary spirit who helps define on an archetypal level the character of man. So instead of using the word Djinn - which simply is a word loaded with a LOT of different meanings for different people, just use the word "Spirit" - kingdom, and species we have organized science under. And the ones who do use a different set of classifications... some of which they say we cannot conceive.

Now, beyond that - the underlying theme I see is one of wondering if or should we "trust" spirits. The fact is, this is NO PART of classic magick encourages you to trust spirits. That is PATENTLY a new age concept. Older models are those of submitting to spirits, or submitting to "God" for control over spirits. These are the specific models of the more classic and ancient magicks, and one or both can be employed. In my tradition, We put our trust in ourselves and adore the Most High and employ Divine Providence to control spirits. This is a model that is generally found in classical models and certain modern ones. I do not like to speak in generalities, but I have met some spirits I know I can't trust, and gotten exactly what I need from them - but specifically there are others I do not have to micromanage, and some have become accustomed to me and respond well to requests. Others will surely get away with anything they can. This is why a successful magician will have to cultivate a strong and effective ability to discriminate. It comes with experience... usually.

BTW - do not ask me what I think of another person's books on this subject - especially not some new person - I have not and will not read them. In a world of hype and paranoia, I have trusted and personal sources of conversation about these things. I do not know if the person who wrote those books has done ANYTHING ever, and I do not know if you are reading their book correctly.

A great way to do this is "I was reading [name of book] by [author], and I it got me to wondering if [question].

Also, one last thing, I am not a conspiracy theorist. They typically want a simplistic model of everything. I am not so foolish as to think that such a thing exists.

[dwellersinthemirage]

@ provenant/robstanley1/FESU/Pablo/raum215:

Past and Future

from: The New Frontier (1925)

I tell you that the children of yesteryears
are walking in the funeral of the era that they created for themselves.
They are pulling a rotted rope that might break soon
and cause them to drop into a forgotten abyss.
I say that they are living in homes with weak foundations;
as the storm blows -- and it is about to blow --
their homes will fall upon their heads and thus become their tombs.
I say that all their thoughts, their sayings,
their quarrels, their compositions,
their books and all their life's work
are nothing but chains dragging them
because they are too weak to pull the load.

But the children of tomorrow are the ones called by life,
and they follow it with steady steps and heads high,
they are the dawn of new frontiers,
no smoke will veil their eyes
and no jingle of chains will drown out their voices.
They are few in number,
but the difference is as between a grain of wheat and a stack of hay.
No one knows them but they know each other.
They are like the summits, which can see or hear each other --
not like caves, which cannot hear or see.
They are the seed dropped by the hand of God in the field,
breaking through its pod and waving its sapling leaves before the face of the sun.
It shall grow into a mighty tree,
its root in the heart of the earth and its branches high in the sky.
.:Kahlil Gibran:.

[7777774]

Well damn, D, haven't you become quite the cocky philosopher these last few weeks?

You'll have to excuse me if I missed a bit of your novella, but my aformentioned ADD got the better of me near the third act.
And besides, there's only so much shit a man can take in one sitting.

Hi all!

It's been 14 days since I started this thread, " Who goes there?" (last Sun May 26, 2013.) In all the ensuing time, not one, no, not even one remotely satisfactory solid rebuttal regarding my allegation concerning the the counterfeit NAPs has emerged. I find this non-reaction quite curious as well as revealing. (Much can be ascertained not only by that which is said, but also by that which is disregarded and excluded.) So I ask, does this poverty of response by the old masters of this list construe a sin of omission amounting to a glaring admission of guilt?

Instead of stepping up to the plate, why have these heavy hitters preferred to remain out-of-sight in the dugout? Rather than demonstrating to all that they have the courage of their convictions, these old wizards have merely sat back and snickered as a handful of their pesky horseflies, (Beelzebub's emissaries?) have been attempting to divert my Djinn=NAPs topic by fouling the atmosphere with their hubris and vulgarity. (I would think it an embarrassment to those a little higher up the pecking order to allow such pawns to so ineptly speak for them.) At least we have had a little comic relief. <smile>

Will no one amongst all the more mature, seasoned magickal practitioners hereabout come to the defense of their particular exalted master of time and space, thereby exonerating their questionable momentum for me while simultaneously neutralizing my Djinn=NAPs proposition in one masterful fell swoop? That should be mere child's play for these genuises!

Why haven't any of these descended ascended masters populating this list emerged from the shadows to weigh in on my charge that the Djinn=NAPs?

Come out, come out, where ever you are!

For instance, I thought by now that at least one of their beloved heroes, such as Aiwass, (Crowley's avowed Guardian Angel) [image] http://www.blastedtower.com/wp-content/ ... 04/Lam.jpg would have whispered something amazingly clever into their eager ears by which to blast me. Or what about any of their myriad other exalted mahatmas dredged from the depths such as the goetia spirits with whom they cavort? [image] http://z.about.com/d/altreligion/1/0/Z/ ... magick.jpg
Or, why don't these "gods" at least furnish their human hosts with a scripted reply suitable enough to elucidate and justify their master/slave codependency? (hosts, as in biology, "the animal or plant on which or in which another organism lives.") Let's part the curtain to see what is actually happening on the backstage of appearances so that all may know exactly who or what is pulling the strings of the magickal NAP marionettes; what is really going on behind all the smoke-and-mirrors, the dog-and-pony-show, the razzmatazz and razzledazzle?

Remember everyone, this is the Chinese Year of the Black Snake wherein delusion and deception are common, so stay alert! "Pluto, the planet of deep inner purging and miraculous transformation during 2013 year of the Snake is in a stressful aspect to action planet Mars and rebel game changer Uranus. Pluto exposes what is hidden through a deep revealing of subconscious material. Slowly we begin to see the reasons for things, we understand the root cause of some dysfunction. With Pluto in Capricorn it's likely that the institutions of society will be exposed, darker purposes will be revealed. The dark forces that have ruled unhindered in the past are now being exposed. We humans are waking up, starting to smell the coffee." see: http://www.gotohoroscope.com/2013-horoscope/

So saying, were this an earthly court of law, an indictment against this erudite list's egregore could justifiably be issued, charging it with the egregious crime of aiding and abetting the Vengeful Djinn, who are the avowed enemies of the human race.

(The purpose of an indictment is to inform an accused individual of the charge against him or her so that the person will be able to prepare a defense.)

I do regard the following two statements (#1 and #2) as being mutually exclusive, (of or pertaining to a situation involving two or more events, possibilities etc., in which the occurrence of one precludes the occurrence of the other)

Therefore I must conclude that the reason (take your pick) for the reticence of these evocationonline ringmasters to come forward into the daylight for examination is due to:

1. They are fully cognizent of their actions. These old masters amongst us realize, spot-on, how correct my ad hoc Djinn=NAPs theory is, and so they want to obscure the unpleasant consequences stemming from that fact.

or

2. They are totally clueless. These old masters are blissfully ignorant of the true nature of the non-human intelligences with whom they interface, and consequently unwittingly evangelize their tacit collusion in glowing terms that inadvertently ensnare others too naive to escape victimization.

Since either one or the other of the above situations must be true, I conclude that either predicament #1 or #2 is the reason why none of the old masters around here are able to proffer any logical rationale supporting a defense capable of countering my Djinn=NAPs accusation. Either way, it is a sorry state of affairs!

This determination explains why none of these old master's, (nor their underlings) defense can ever rise above vacuous non sequitur after non sequitur, as shown by the recent futile attempts by my detractors to discredit my person while ignoring my Djinn=NAPs main point under consideration.

First of all, this is a website, not a cult. I have no master, I'm no one's pawn, and I have no respect for authority. I think I speak for everyone when I say this is JUST a forum. A very good forum, with very skilled magicians in its ranks, but no more and no less than the sum of its parts.

Now, if you're looking for an old-timer on this forum, you can't get much more old-timey than Raum, and he's already responded. I'm willing to bet that the reason you haven't had more of these old-timers on your thread is because your premise (while trendy) is very old hat. It's been shot off since the beginning of time.
That, and you're impossible to reason with.
People like myself who thrive on confrontation and the prattlings of the less-mentally inclined tend to be able to stomach it more efficiently.

Your argument has been shot down, it continues to be shot down. You're not the clever tactician you see in your mind, you're a child with an ego complex. Prove your point before you try to call someone out, D. Take a chill pill, take a walk, get a life.

[raum215]

I am actually a VERY close balance of innovation and tradition.

I also did not read Kalil Gibran, nor am I about to. I leveled a great opportunity your way - to have your voice heard and to answer your questions. you quote bombed me about something that is less appealing than minecraft right now, after I got out of the gym. Your loss.

[7777774]

I am actually a VERY close balance of innovation and tradition.

I also did not read Kalil Gibran, nor am I about to. I leveled a great opportunity your way - to have your voice heard and to answer your questions. you quote bombed me about something that is less appealing than minecraft right now, after I got out of the gym. Your loss.

Wow, you're still reading this guy's quotes?

My mind's filtering them out as " yadayadapretentiousnessicangoogleyadayada".

Patience, huh? been at this whole life thing longer than I have.