Strophalos of Hecaté or Hekate's Wheel

[Wanderer]

I find for me when I am dealing with things I try to place source items in time sequence. When I first started I used to go by quotes and generic references. But now I try to place things in as near a time sequence as I can to see how they relate to often cited reference "quotes".

Have to make a new one but I used to have a time line that dealt with Hekate and when various poems, stories, authors, poets, etc were active. Then when I saw things I though were important as influences or events I'd place them on the timeline as well as quick reference notes. Nothing fancy just things to remind me who, what, when, where.

Have to admit I'm a bit of an analyst though an my degree is in history. Just makes sense to me to do stuff like that.

I don't have a degree in History, but I try to follow the same line of thinking. If I can discern what the nexus around a point of contention was in history, I research both that primary source and those who appear to be influenced by that primary source. I recognize that i'll probably still walk away with something less than a full understanding of what was done, but this still provides me with the opportunity to get closer in my understanding.

From there, I let the spirits and their gnosis (alongside UPG and inspiration) instruct me in what I'm doing, how I'm doing it, and then I further deduce from there.

Jade Sol Luna's take on Hekate is very much influenced by an Eastern (Kali Ma) slant. There's a lot of Hellene presence but also a lot of his own Eastern influence as well. I read both of his books (there's also a CD). I honestly don't recall it influencing me to much but he does offer some interesting perspective on her. Their not bad books and by far not the worst I've read dealing with Hekate but I wouldn't put them at the top of my list.

Thank you. From what you'd described, he appeared to be staring at the Hekate material available to him and squinting a fair bit. Nothing wrong with doing so, but that kind of information is always a bit "out there".

I honestly think most of the conflict is derived due to the Wiccan presence and influence of the contrasting ideals. Figure the idea of "Harm None, Do As Thou Will" tends to be very much in conflict to the Asatru / Odinist ideals of Battle, Shield Maidens, chosen on the field of Battle by the Valkrie. You might say the Pagan movement still held a lot of it's Hippie / Feminist influences of the 60's & 70's where the Heathen movement was not specifically founded from the fertile field.

Even putting aside the idea that the Odinist movement held lots of racial purity influences and Asatru incorporated some of that. The typical structure of a heathenist grouping with its blots and such was pretty different than your typical coven. That not even taking into consideration the idea of a "Cowan"

Factor in what was occurring regarding the breaking down of the closed lineaged groups on the pagan side during the late 80's early 90's and you had even more divides. It was bad enough on the Pagan side with BTW (British Traditional Wicca) which required initiation and lineage vs all the new self taught, self initiated, self dedicated stuff appearing with the 101 books appearing.

That wasn't even touching the divide that was going on between the Pagan & occult (sorcery) ie ceremonial / high magics grouping at the time.

Well stated and it easily could be that the fringe concepts of each "path" had it out with one another, with accusations of racism and upset at more peace-focused ideologies causing conflicts along the way. On some level, there's been a desire for control over the narrative in the case of organized religion, and new age thought/neopaganism is far from immune to this. This essentially carries forward some of the anti-Crowleyan biases from the Victorian era and just applies it towards more groups, all under the banner of one side being "more right" than the other. This sounds rather more like jealousy than any kind of historical difference.

My personal opinion is I think this period is another reason you see things like Hekate's Wheel appear. It brings in a form of Sorcery that really was not part of many pagan /witchy practices prior to this. I personally do not recall sigils, ceremonial & high magical stuff in many witchy books to much back then. It's only after authors try to add more and more stuff to the mix that you start to see that stuff appear.

Could be. There are, however, many svartboka (black books) that have been found with sigils and signs within them. In addition, paleolithic cave paintings do, too, have their own sigils and elements of ritual imagery present in them (see Jan Fries' Helrunar, for instance). It seems that sigils have become something of a buzzword in recent magical texts, however, perhaps as a means of conceptualizing power into a glyph that can more easily be tapped along the lines of what chaos magicians have been doing since the 80s.

I wonder if this could be an instance of cultural diffusion amongst the magical community, since on some level we're all somewhat power-hungry and fascinated by what the spirit world can achieve. Seeing the results of another path can often inspire us to try to find the same common ground within our own.

Not sure she is the true north as much as the "Herme" type figure at the crossroads. The three face / masks that you look upon and each mask / face reveals a differing gaze. Yet what does each gaze reveal as the light and shadows play across it's image as you look upon it and move about it's angle of view?

A fair point, at that. This brings to mind the thought that perhaps the light's influence on the image (and, in turn, the shadow's influence) could be a part of the magic and invocational process. I tend to view light and darkness as being elements unto themselves, separate from the age old standards, so this would make sense within the context of my understanding of those elements.

Its something I need to unpack further, at any rate, as its clear there's some manner of lesson or teaching here that could be utilized elsewhere.

Ah, ok I see what you saying now.

Sweet. I'm glad that makes some sense now.

Just speculation on my part but given all the various "Seals" that were found there it seems more likely they are simply potters marks. If not potters marks then simple designs more so than equated to specific divinities.

If for arguments / discussion lets say it is a ijnx. Then it's a magical emblem used by a number of goddess, usually for love for instance. So it would be a common motif symbol or series of symbols. Now if you place these symbols on a container that is used for say shipping wine or spirits that is used for certain types of public rituals or ceremonies and you wanted to be able to easily show the contents of said containers. You put the seal on the container. We do it today on all our products. Why would the ancients be any different?

It doesn't make much sense for a product to be produced for a temple / sanctuary / shrine at some distance then shipped to the place unless it is either a unique product or some sort of building product. Figure at the ruins of most of your temples / shrines / sanctuaries you find the remains of artisans workshops that produced them for the site. At larger sites even cities grow up around the complexes. Not to say its impossible but seems unlikely.

I see what you're saying, and that's essentially what I'm getting at here. Call it "branding", but its branding that's related to a specific deity or power or influence rather than Pfizer or Walmart. Anyhow, with respect to the creation of trade goods and transporting them, I think it actually makes more sense than you might initially think.

For instance, look at the creation of weapons throughout history. One of the things that made early Arabs so profoundly powerful within their locale was their ability to create steel that was sharp, resilient, and strong. Wootz steel is STILL legendary to this day, as there was a protected process involved in its creation that created impressive enough weapons that they were and are sought after even today. This is likely directly correlated to the kind of material being used to create it, as not all iron is created equal.

We can see this in Japan, for instance. Samurai swords are not at all superior to others, but they required additional ornamentation and process in order to actually be made into something worthwhile. This is directly related to what was locally available, as in Japan iron deposits are hard to come by. What they had access to was iron sand that had to be melted down in a crucible and then broken apart by a smith who would then choose ingots for the edge and ingots for the sidewalls of the katana. This became an art because the iron itself is really rather crappy in nature...its nowhere near as strong as iron found in Britain without this kind of to-do behind it.

We see a parallel to this between the early Gauls and Rome. The Romans were scared as hell of them because they had the ability to make iron swords at a point in time where Rome only had access to bronze weapons. A well-made iron sword can plow directly through an equally well-made bronze equivalent, so the Romans were essentially better trained but poorly armed by comparison, and as a result they were consistently smoshed by the local "barbarians". This persisted until a greedy/stupid Gaulish smith shared the methodology for making iron weapons and tools with the Romans, which then empowered them to expand even further than they had before.

Had this occured through the trading of such weapons instead, you can be fairly certain that the Romans would have given the Gauls just about anything in order to get access to what was a wondersteel of a kind in that day and age. Now, I get that this is a little bit of a leap, but what if pottery was the same way? I know a tad about it, and as with glassblowing, some materials are vastly better than others for the creation of jars and pots. If you didn't have local access to the kind of materials necessary in order to make these super sturdy, gorgeous vessels, you'd either have to make do without it or find a way to trade for it.

If these vessels were traded for instead, it would make PERFECT sense for them to be factory-produced and shipped. We do the same thing in our day to day lives as it is, and there's not a whole lot of evidence (as far as I am aware) that this didn't occur with our ancestors too. That's my line of thought, anyway.

One of the things that has sort of spun around in the back of my head with this Hekate's Wheel has actual tied into the idea of the Venus Flower. Not sure if you've ever looked at it but it's the heavenly flower shape that the planet Venus makes as it revolves about the sun.tumblr_mn65hg5OgG1s8183so1_1280.jpg

Presuming that Hekate's Wheel is actually something that is marking movements and is showing motion then where is that motion at? Logically that motion should be in the heavens. But what is the cyclic pattern to what ever is being charted?

I can't say I've ever seen this before, but that is fascinating on so many levels...food for thought indeed, as I got to thinking about what the benefit of a wheel/wheel-like-item that's described as being a Strophalos would provide. If its a bolo, then it provides motion as a kind of empowerment for the ritual itself, not unlike swinging a censer full of fragrant fumigents.

If, however, its a fire receptacle that's spun as a means of creating shadows on the wall, then its the dance of those shadows upon the wall that is sacred and significant. This, to me, would suggest that it wasn't the flame itself that was thought of as important in this context, but rather the shadows created instead, framing Hekate differently. I don't yet know where I'm going with this, but there's something about this idea that's a bit of an earwig for me.

[monsnoleedra]

I don't have a degree in History, but I try to follow the same line of thinking. If I can discern what the nexus around a point of contention was in history, I research both that primary source and those who appear to be influenced by that primary source. I recognize that i'll probably still walk away with something less than a full understanding of what was done, but this still provides me with the opportunity to get closer in my understanding.

From there, I let the spirits and their gnosis (alongside UPG and inspiration) instruct me in what I'm doing, how I'm doing it, and then I further deduce from there.

I know for me it helps me understand "context" better if I try to look at the larger picture. Paganism is abused with pseudo history or selective history as it is. Then add in that when people cite things they take quotes but never really dig into them or look at just what is actually being implied in them. That or what is perhaps worse take today's definitions and apply them to yesterday's words while ignoring yesterday's definitions and usages of the word. it changes the context of things so much when they do that.

Then like you said factoring in our own UPG and inspirations along with whatever the spirit / divinity / entity / etc themselves tells us.

Well stated and it easily could be that the fringe concepts of each "path" had it out with one another, with accusations of racism and upset at more peace-focused ideologies causing conflicts along the way. On some level, there's been a desire for control over the narrative in the case of organized religion, and new age thought/neopaganism is far from immune to this. This essentially carries forward some of the anti-Crowleyan biases from the Victorian era and just applies it towards more groups, all under the banner of one side being "more right" than the other. This sounds rather more like jealousy than any kind of historical difference.

Don't think it was jealousy though. It's hard to describe there was a serious difference between the heathen / pagan perspective on things. Many went to great lengths to ensure they were not equated with the other, especially on the heathen side of the equation. New Age really wasn't even a thing through the 80's and 90's when a lot of this was going down that I recall now. Things like the African Disapora stuff I don't even recall hearing about for the most part, when you did it definitely wasn't with white people.

I do recall though I was oversea's and in the military through most of the 80's and 90's that Wicca was a religion and Occult was a practice. So Witchcraft or similar fell up under Occult, which also meant that your ceremonial, high and low magics also fell under occult. That's also where you had the idea of all Wiccan's where witches but not all witches were Wiccan's.

Could be. There are, however, many svartboka (black books) that have been found with sigils and signs within them. In addition, paleolithic cave paintings do, too, have their own sigils and elements of ritual imagery present in them (see Jan Fries' Helrunar, for instance). It seems that sigils have become something of a buzzword in recent magical texts, however, perhaps as a means of conceptualizing power into a glyph that can more easily be tapped along the lines of what chaos magicians have been doing since the 80s.

I wonder if this could be an instance of cultural diffusion amongst the magical community, since on some level we're all somewhat power-hungry and fascinated by what the spirit world can achieve. Seeing the results of another path can often inspire us to try to find the same common ground within our own.

Perhaps. But I wonder to if it's not unlike the idea of constructs. You had the idea of poppets, golems, servitors, egregores but you hardly ever heard the term Tulpas. Then I recall I started to hear the idea of Tulpa's probably around the 2010 time frame I think it was. Perhaps a bit before but 2010 I think is when it really sticks in my head. Prior to that it was Servitor & Egregore were the main idea of constructs.

So buzzwords tend to come and go, especially as authors need something new to add to their books to make them sell. The idea of sacred symbols or such is another of those "Finds" that also come and go to make things sell. Same as all those supposed magical books that are found with their hidden sigils and symbols. Sort of like the revealed books that suddenly appear to have been channeled.

A fair point, at that. This brings to mind the thought that perhaps the light's influence on the image (and, in turn, the shadow's influence) could be a part of the magic and invocational process. I tend to view light and darkness as being elements unto themselves, separate from the age old standards, so this would make sense within the context of my understanding of those elements.

The idea of light and darkness as elements unto themselves is always one I tend to play around with. Especially in the sense that revealing of "Hidden" things in the shadows seems to be a trait of Hekate and light and shadow definitely changes what it reveals depending upon how one views those things in the depths of changing light and shadow and their angle of observation.

I see what you're saying, and that's essentially what I'm getting at here. Call it "branding", but its branding that's related to a specific deity or power or influence rather than Pfizer or Walmart. Anyhow, with respect to the creation of trade goods and transporting them, I think it actually makes more sense than you might initially think.

Oh I don't disagree about trade goods or specialty goods. Sometimes you simply can't move the trade to other sites due to materials so the goods are manufactured then shipped out. Specialized craftsmen and supply and demand contribute to a thriving practice.

I can't say I've ever seen this before, but that is fascinating on so many levels...food for thought indeed, as I got to thinking about what the benefit of a wheel/wheel-like-item that's described as being a Strophalos would provide. If its a bolo, then it provides motion as a kind of empowerment for the ritual itself, not unlike swinging a censer full of fragrant fumigents.

If, however, its a fire receptacle that's spun as a means of creating shadows on the wall, then its the dance of those shadows upon the wall that is sacred and significant. This, to me, would suggest that it wasn't the flame itself that was thought of as important in this context, but rather the shadows created instead, framing Hekate differently. I don't yet know where I'm going with this, but there's something about this idea that's a bit of an earwig for me.

What gets me is if people insist that the design that is reproduced is in fact a representation of Hekate's Wheel and it is symbolic of some movement then what is it representing. To think it's the three realms she holds dominion over or the three stages of womanhood as some claim seems illogical. If it is a movement in the air then it suggest's its an equal pattern if we presume the pattern is correct. Yet what if the pattern is more like a shutter pattern? What if it's more like when something is being spun and one moment there is light then a short darkness then light then a short darkness then light then darkness continued as you turn it? Like an orb that is spinning inside of something as you turn it perhaps so you see a flame then the flame is gone but when drawn then its like you see on the wheel. Points where there are lobes then points where you have nothing. Yet you have a central orb.

Think if you spin a bucket of water the force pushes the water to the outer end of the bucket and holds it there preventing it from falling out. Yet spin something with a hole and it whistles. Put a small cord with a second cord over your finger and you can control a small opening and open and close it. You close and open the whistle port.

Same if you have flame and spin it but all that comes out is smoke if the material is green or damp and it smoke more than burns.

Just thoughts going through my head as I consider things.

[monsnoleedra]

What if Hekate really does have a wheel in the sky? What if it's a wheel based upon two circles, one based upon the planets and one based upon the zodiac's. It has two X's, one for her World Soul feature and one for Pluto's world soul feature which she shares and it holds three potential marks to denote when three goddesses are active under the mysteries of the Greater and Lesser mysteries of Eleusis.

Perhaps it might resemble something like Seal 83 or Seal 85 from the previous paper we were talking about.

https://www.academia.edu/9702551/Platos ... of_Eleusis

[Wanderer]

I know for me it helps me understand "context" better if I try to look at the larger picture. Paganism is abused with pseudo history or selective history as it is. Then add in that when people cite things they take quotes but never really dig into them or look at just what is actually being implied in them. That or what is perhaps worse take today's definitions and apply them to yesterday's words while ignoring yesterday's definitions and usages of the word. it changes the context of things so much when they do that.

Then like you said factoring in our own UPG and inspirations along with whatever the spirit / divinity / entity / etc themselves tells us.

We're very much on the same page in this respect, and seem to approach the issue from a relatively similar angle. The psuedohistory you've mentioned here is something of a constant, as religious beliefs have been twisted away from what they originally represented. Its one of the facets of the New Age movement that drives me bonkers.

Don't think it was jealousy though. It's hard to describe there was a serious difference between the heathen / pagan perspective on things. Many went to great lengths to ensure they were not equated with the other, especially on the heathen side of the equation. New Age really wasn't even a thing through the 80's and 90's when a lot of this was going down that I recall now. Things like the African Disapora stuff I don't even recall hearing about for the most part, when you did it definitely wasn't with white people.

I do recall though I was oversea's and in the military through most of the 80's and 90's that Wicca was a religion and Occult was a practice. So Witchcraft or similar fell up under Occult, which also meant that your ceremonial, high and low magics also fell under occult. That's also where you had the idea of all Wiccan's where witches but not all witches were Wiccan's.

I see what you're getting at here.

Perhaps. But I wonder to if it's not unlike the idea of constructs. You had the idea of poppets, golems, servitors, egregores but you hardly ever heard the term Tulpas. Then I recall I started to hear the idea of Tulpa's probably around the 2010 time frame I think it was. Perhaps a bit before but 2010 I think is when it really sticks in my head. Prior to that it was Servitor & Egregore were the main idea of constructs.

So buzzwords tend to come and go, especially as authors need something new to add to their books to make them sell. The idea of sacred symbols or such is another of those "Finds" that also come and go to make things sell. Same as all those supposed magical books that are found with their hidden sigils and symbols. Sort of like the revealed books that suddenly appear to have been channeled.

Oh, most definitely. The tech is largely the same, but "there is nothing new under the sun", so these concepts essentially end up being turned into buzzwords in a cyclical way. Trends tend to repeat themselves, and the same tends to occur within the Occult world.

In the second half of what you've written above, you raised a good point and area of discussion that might need to be expounded upon elsewhere to really get anywhere. Speaking from a UPG/practice-oriented POV as someone who has created these sigils and signs through my own work, I've noticed, too, that these sigils are not static or unchanging. Rather, some of these signs seem to be permanently useful, while others require changes and modifications as life unfolds around them. Sometimes this is simply related to the passage of time and astrological weather, and in other cases its deeply rooted in the development of the spirit.

This is considerably less of a concern with deities, but becomes all the rage when interacting with beings from the Lower Realms/Underworld. Same goes for planetary entities, as the generated signs for entities like Hizmael and Barachiel generally need to be supported by additional 'lenses' in order to be particularly effective. Using their seal and seal alone can generate results, but there are supporting concepts that make a difference.

The Planetary Keys I created some time ago are one such example, as these were indeed "channeled" from spirits I was working with at the time. Those keys act as supports to the power and potency of manifestation of beings within the sphere they represent.

The idea of light and darkness as elements unto themselves is always one I tend to play around with. Especially in the sense that revealing of "Hidden" things in the shadows seems to be a trait of Hekate and light and shadow definitely changes what it reveals depending upon how one views those things in the depths of changing light and shadow and their angle of observation.

I'm glad I'm not the only one to feel that way & sense a kind of importance within the shadows. Hekate is one of those beings that seems to place particular prominance and importance on the idea of the correct light being shown at the ideal time in order to more fully grasp what's hidden. The same can be expressed for shadows and their creation, too, as there's a careful blend and balance of dark and light that must be achieved in order to glimpse and understand what's there.

Have you ever noticed Hekate interacting with you by changing your emotional state in order to force an understanding? When she's done so with me, there's a certain darkness/lightness of mind that has to be achieved in order to actually understand what she's getting at. She'll project traumatic imagery or a field of flowers according to her desires and the intended response as a means of priming me to understand what she's getting at.

Oh I don't disagree about trade goods or specialty goods. Sometimes you simply can't move the trade to other sites due to materials so the goods are manufactured then shipped out. Specialized craftsmen and supply and demand contribute to a thriving practice.

Yep! That's what I was thinking of concerning the maker's mark idea, as that locality of artistry is a thing even now, within the context of a global civilization. It must have been even more localized in the ancient world, as they didn't have planes within which they could quickly travel from one side of the world to another.

What gets me is if people insist that the design that is reproduced is in fact a representation of Hekate's Wheel and it is symbolic of some movement then what is it representing. To think it's the three realms she holds dominion over or the three stages of womanhood as some claim seems illogical. If it is a movement in the air then it suggest's its an equal pattern if we presume the pattern is correct. Yet what if the pattern is more like a shutter pattern? What if it's more like when something is being spun and one moment there is light then a short darkness then light then a short darkness then light then darkness continued as you turn it? Like an orb that is spinning inside of something as you turn it perhaps so you see a flame then the flame is gone but when drawn then its like you see on the wheel. Points where there are lobes then points where you have nothing. Yet you have a central orb.

Think if you spin a bucket of water the force pushes the water to the outer end of the bucket and holds it there preventing it from falling out. Yet spin something with a hole and it whistles. Put a small cord with a second cord over your finger and you can control a small opening and open and close it. You close and open the whistle port.

Same if you have flame and spin it but all that comes out is smoke if the material is green or damp and it smoke more than burns.

Just thoughts going through my head as I consider things.

I like how you've described that, and I think that concept of there being a second of light, second of dark, second of light, second of dark is really damned important in this context. The words made something I saw make more sense, as Hekate was saying something to me a while ago that referenced the passage of time and the ages. She was getting at the idea of how human beings go through awesome times and they're usually followed with something that feels way less awesome...if those good times are indicative of the light shining upon us, then the bad ones could logically be seen as shadows playing upon us in response. Since these good/bad cycles are essentially required for growth, what if the Stropholos somehow represents an acceleration of both the good and bad as a means of fueling growth/magical development?

This is a very cool concept...

Not sure what to make of the idea of two wheels in the Sky though.

[monsnoleedra]

@Wander

When you get a chance read this file https://www.academia.edu/36851483/_Flow ... rina_2009_

[Wanderer]

@Wander

When you get a chance read this file https://www.academia.edu/36851483/_Flow ... rina_2009_

Just downloaded this! Thank you for the link!

[monsnoleedra]

We're very much on the same page in this respect, and seem to approach the issue from a relatively similar angle. The psuedohistory you've mentioned here is something of a constant, as religious beliefs have been twisted away from what they originally represented. Its one of the facets of the New Age movement that drives me bonkers.

I think for me it's the fact the twisting is not even just religious. It's like looking at Artemis and even Hekate and using the word Virgin. Virgin in ancient Greece didn't mean that they had no sexual relations it meant they were beholden to no man. Yet today, nearly every time you read or discuss it and the word Virgin comes up it's automatically "No sexual contact!" Figure Parthenos basically meant "maiden" or "Young Woman" not "No sex" later people changed it to mean "No Sex" Basically do to a bible translation.

Oh, most definitely. The tech is largely the same, but "there is nothing new under the sun", so these concepts essentially end up being turned into buzzwords in a cyclical way. Trends tend to repeat themselves, and the same tends to occur within the Occult world.

In the second half of what you've written above, you raised a good point and area of discussion that might need to be expounded upon elsewhere to really get anywhere. Speaking from a UPG/practice-oriented POV as someone who has created these sigils and signs through my own work, I've noticed, too, that these sigils are not static or unchanging. Rather, some of these signs seem to be permanently useful, while others require changes and modifications as life unfolds around them. Sometimes this is simply related to the passage of time and astrological weather, and in other cases its deeply rooted in the development of the spirit.

This is considerably less of a concern with deities, but becomes all the rage when interacting with beings from the Lower Realms/Underworld. Same goes for planetary entities, as the generated signs for entities like Hizmael and Barachiel generally need to be supported by additional 'lenses' in order to be particularly effective. Using their seal and seal alone can generate results, but there are supporting concepts that make a difference.

The Planetary Keys I created some time ago are one such example, as these were indeed "channeled" from spirits I was working with at the time. Those keys act as supports to the power and potency of manifestation of beings within the sphere they represent.

I agree that some sigils do change with time. I've had some that I swear came with a limited warranty that said good for the next 24 hours only. After that the planets would be out of alignment, the entity in question would be gone, the conditions would no longer be right, etc. Heck a few I think were like a 1 time offer thing, use now or loose forever.

Other sigils I've had given to me were my sigils. Signs that were to be used to represent me. I tried one time to use one in a spell and was told "I didn't give it to you to use in a spell, I gave it to you to represent you!" It never changes and I still find myself drawing it out at random times when I just sit and doodle for no reason. Sort of a mantra type thing almost.

Channeling is still iffy for me. I think because on a mental level I have two different idea's of what channeling is. What they call channeling today with it's alien idea is pretty different from what it was with it's connection to the Spiritualist Movement of the late 1880's to the 1920's. When people talk of channeling some entity from Alpha Centari who only knows as much about earth history and things as the channel does then I get suspect. but then tries to say they know all these hidden things. The old channel idea's where the spirits, the dead or even Daemons & Angels.

I'm glad I'm not the only one to feel that way & sense a kind of importance within the shadows. Hekate is one of those beings that seems to place particular prominance and importance on the idea of the correct light being shown at the ideal time in order to more fully grasp what's hidden. The same can be expressed for shadows and their creation, too, as there's a careful blend and balance of dark and light that must be achieved in order to glimpse and understand what's there.

Have you ever noticed Hekate interacting with you by changing your emotional state in order to force an understanding? When she's done so with me, there's a certain darkness/lightness of mind that has to be achieved in order to actually understand what she's getting at. She'll project traumatic imagery or a field of flowers according to her desires and the intended response as a means of priming me to understand what she's getting at.

I've had situations where Hekate will not only place me in situations where I've spent hours sitting staring at the same spot to observe how the shadows change the face of things, but also change my mood and vision during it. More than a few times changing the weather during some of those situations where it started out sunny and clear then change it so it was then rainy followed with fog an low clouds closing in on the area. Yet heaven help you if you decided you needed to get up and leave. That was more painful than sitting through it all and finding out what she wanted you to observe or learn.

That's also where it gets difficult being a devotee of hers and being a shamanic practitioner. There's times where your not quite sure which force is driving but the mannerisms and methodology is so similar they can't be separated. I've sat on a hillside in the drizzle and mist starring down into a ravine listening to the water run down out of the mountains. trying to figure out why I was there yet unable to bring my self to get up and leave. Shivering from the dampness and cold, clothes soaked all the way through. Then I heard the song and saw them pass though the forest, saw tree's bend out of their way. The forest held it's breath as they came through, still not sure just what they were. Heck, still not even sure they were there.

I like how you've described that, and I think that concept of there being a second of light, second of dark, second of light, second of dark is really damned important in this context. The words made something I saw make more sense, as Hekate was saying something to me a while ago that referenced the passage of time and the ages. She was getting at the idea of how human beings go through awesome times and they're usually followed with something that feels way less awesome...if those good times are indicative of the light shining upon us, then the bad ones could logically be seen as shadows playing upon us in response. Since these good/bad cycles are essentially required for growth, what if the Stropholos somehow represents an acceleration of both the good and bad as a means of fueling growth/magical development?

This is a very cool concept...

I know for me I keep getting this idea that people are missing the idea and meaning behind the Stropholos. It's something that represents 3d movement but it's being lost in the image and it's not being seen.

[Wanderer]

I think for me it's the fact the twisting is not even just religious. It's like looking at Artemis and even Hekate and using the word Virgin. Virgin in ancient Greece didn't mean that they had no sexual relations it meant they were beholden to no man. Yet today, nearly every time you read or discuss it and the word Virgin comes up it's automatically "No sexual contact!" Figure Parthenos basically meant "maiden" or "Young Woman" not "No sex" later people changed it to mean "No Sex" Basically do to a bible translation.

That's a fair point, and to add to it "Virgin" originally referred to a woman whose honor could not be challenged. They could totally be beholden to a man or a woman, but their relations could not be challenged as being impure. In essence, they were seen as being beyond reproach. As the compunctions of the masses changed at the behest of the church, we started to see a shift where being "pure" in this sense was associated with sexual inexperience. Slight asterisk to the understanding we're discussing, but you're on point here.

To me, that's fascinating in and of itself, as that understanding furthered my connection with many of these so-called virginal deities because I am neither sexully inexperienced or prudish in that sense. Finding that beings like Artemis took no issue with this kind of behavior enriched my experiences of her and allowed me to create what feels to be an authentic connection devoid of some of the judgements that would otherwise be present if "no sex" was a dealbreaker.

This part is UPG, but I've found her to be a wonderful protectress of the sacrality of a relationship, and she seems to take substantial issue with those who break or somehow muddle the sacrality and "virginity" of a relationship. Coming into this awareness really shifted things inside me and allowed a greater appreciation of Artemis as a being.

I agree that some sigils do change with time. I've had some that I swear came with a limited warranty that said good for the next 24 hours only. After that the planets would be out of alignment, the entity in question would be gone, the conditions would no longer be right, etc. Heck a few I think were like a 1 time offer thing, use now or loose forever.

YES! Or there are times where a sigil will literally only work -once-. It doesn't matter what the timing is, they'll just literally only work once for any one person and then promptly lose their potency for that individual afterwards. Its rather odd, and I cannot find a specific reason for it other than theorizing that in those cases there is a kind of Wyrdic binding that occurs to tie the sigil in question to the person's Fate, and then that's that.

Astrologically timed sigils are sensible enough, in that they are referencing a specific connection in the universe that's occuring at a specific moment. When this occurs, it means that the manifestation will be able to occur again when the same astrological event comes up again. Since all things work in cycles, this can be observed over time.

Other sigils I've had given to me were my sigils. Signs that were to be used to represent me. I tried one time to use one in a spell and was told "I didn't give it to you to use in a spell, I gave it to you to represent you!" It never changes and I still find myself drawing it out at random times when I just sit and doodle for no reason. Sort of a mantra type thing almost.

Yes, they become something of a call-sign for your soul. I know exectly what you mean, and those sigils do need to be protected and kept reasonably secret given how deeply tied to your being they are.

It is also possible to create sigils that only work for one person. I've done that for clients many, many times now, as its all related to their energy and essence at the time of the creation of the sign.

Channeling is still iffy for me. I think because on a mental level I have two different idea's of what channeling is. What they call channeling today with it's alien idea is pretty different from what it was with it's connection to the Spiritualist Movement of the late 1880's to the 1920's. When people talk of channeling some entity from Alpha Centari who only knows as much about earth history and things as the channel does then I get suspect. but then tries to say they know all these hidden things. The old channel idea's where the spirits, the dead or even Daemons & Angels.

I concur, and to me that tends to fall back on the veracity and skillset of the individual doing the channeling. Some of this does come from the imagination of these authors relating such information, and that's fine as long as it works. I have no issue with content that works, but when someone goes off the deep end spouting nonsense, then I have some serious issues with the idea and don't really respect the process.

The same can be said for being horsed, too. I've been horsed by deities and otherworldly beings more times than I can count, and when it does occur, there's a definite shift in the atmosphere. I still recall my Patron mounting me several years ago, as while I have no memory of what was said or what I did while he was in the driver's seat, I know that I drank two bottles of scotch back to back and then came back stone sober. At that point in my life, a bottle of scotch would have led to a substantially intoxicated Wanderer, so two was obscene and unheard of.

It made for a costly evening, but it also really opened my eyes to what spirits are capable of. Its damned hard to forget instances like this.

I've had situations where Hekate will not only place me in situations where I've spent hours sitting staring at the same spot to observe how the shadows change the face of things, but also change my mood and vision during it. More than a few times changing the weather during some of those situations where it started out sunny and clear then change it so it was then rainy followed with fog an low clouds closing in on the area. Yet heaven help you if you decided you needed to get up and leave. That was more painful than sitting through it all and finding out what she wanted you to observe or learn.

Excellent post, monsnoleedra and I've experienced the same. There are points at which that raw observance IS the lesson, too, which can be a little maddening. She's one of those beings that seems to love forcing a change in the way we perceive the universe around us and plays tricks with the light. For instance, I live in the Pacific Northwest, so its usually cloudy and overcast here....she's been thumping the point that the nature of the skies overhead change what we see, so the quality of light and its effects are different when its cloudy, windy, overcast, calm, etc.

I have not gotten to the point of fully understanding how best to integrate this into my work, but I do understand that both astrological and terrestrial weather impact the way we do magic.

That's also where it gets difficult being a devotee of hers and being a shamanic practitioner. There's times where your not quite sure which force is driving but the mannerisms and methodology is so similar they can't be separated. I've sat on a hillside in the drizzle and mist starring down into a ravine listening to the water run down out of the mountains. trying to figure out why I was there yet unable to bring my self to get up and leave. Shivering from the dampness and cold, clothes soaked all the way through. Then I heard the song and saw them pass though the forest, saw tree's bend out of their way. The forest held it's breath as they came through, still not sure just what they were. Heck, still not even sure they were there.

You're not alone there. That act of out-sitting is sometimes the entire point, and the memo won't be had until you've essentially undergone the act of doing so. Not that long ago, Hekate told me to go to a graveyard and sit at the bench. All I was to do was get lost in the vision and observe...it was a powerful experience, though I was damp, cold, and chilled to the bone afterwards.

I know for me I keep getting this idea that people are missing the idea and meaning behind the Stropholos. It's something that represents 3d movement but it's being lost in the image and it's not being seen.

I've had the same impression, as there is definitely validity to the idea of using a spinning object to connect with the idea of a strophalos, but it doesn't seem to have one explicit shape. The more I dig into this, the more it seems to be that the strophalos itself is a symbol of something far, far more. Just the other day, I was told to grab a mala and spin it as a means of connecting to the energy behind the strophalos concept....it was incredibly effective, but I looked like a dolt twirling a rosary.

[monsnoleedra]

That's a fair point, and to add to it "Virgin" originally referred to a woman whose honor could not be challenged. They could totally be beholden to a man or a woman, but their relations could not be challenged as being impure. In essence, they were seen as being beyond reproach. As the compunctions of the masses changed at the behest of the church, we started to see a shift where being "pure" in this sense was associated with sexual inexperience. Slight asterisk to the understanding we're discussing, but you're on point here.

To me, that's fascinating in and of itself, as that understanding furthered my connection with many of these so-called virginal deities because I am neither sexully inexperienced or prudish in that sense. Finding that beings like Artemis took no issue with this kind of behavior enriched my experiences of her and allowed me to create what feels to be an authentic connection devoid of some of the judgements that would otherwise be present if "no sex" was a dealbreaker.

This part is UPG, but I've found her to be a wonderful protectress of the sacrality of a relationship, and she seems to take substantial issue with those who break or somehow muddle the sacrality and "virginity" of a relationship. Coming into this awareness really shifted things inside me and allowed a greater appreciation of Artemis as a being.

I've been holding off responding to this thread as it seemed we were going off topic from the Strophalos in discussion and was wondering if maybe we didn't need to create a new thread again. But then I got to thinking if maybe that wasn't part of the issue when talking about the Straphalos, trying to keep it so narrowed that we were missing the larger influences that impacted upon it.

Words and meanings are one of the biggest means of misinformation regarding the Straphalos and just what it was and how it was used. So why wouldn't misinformation about Hekate herself and how she was viewed within the system be just as big a source of misinformation within it's (the Straphalos') workings.

By the time of the Chaldean's Hekate clearly had two face's in society, that of the Queen of the dead and Witch Craft. Yet she also had the 3 or four headed face of the Chaldean's. Yet even within the Chaldean system there are 2 Hekate's, perhaps what might be seen as a High and a Low Hekate.

That does seem to tie into the idea that gets tied into the changing forms of Fire and Water, but also of the changing notion of Virginity and Purity. But like Artemis it also ties into relationships, not only between people but also between things or conditions or stages / unions of things.

YES! Or there are times where a sigil will literally only work -once-. It doesn't matter what the timing is, they'll just literally only work once for any one person and then promptly lose their potency for that individual afterwards. Its rather odd, and I cannot find a specific reason for it other than theorizing that in those cases there is a kind of Wyrdic binding that occurs to tie the sigil in question to the person's Fate, and then that's that.

Astrologically timed sigils are sensible enough, in that they are referencing a specific connection in the universe that's occuring at a specific moment. When this occurs, it means that the manifestation will be able to occur again when the same astrological event comes up again. Since all things work in cycles, this can be observed over time.

Heavenly Sigils are a pain to be certain. They might work for a given day then not function again until a certain number of years have passed. What's bad is you might not actually realize that if you do not project it far enough out or are not familiar enough with celestial movements to realize it.

Then there are birth sigils for instants that work once but might work later if the conditions set up again but may or may not ever work again.

Yes, they become something of a call-sign for your soul. I know exectly what you mean, and those sigils do need to be protected and kept reasonably secret given how deeply tied to your being they are.

It is also possible to create sigils that only work for one person. I've done that for clients many, many times now, as its all related to their energy and essence at the time of the creation of the sign.

Similar to birth sigils but are more like prophecy sigils or identity sigils. I had one that was a birthmark sigil yet it is not the same as my identity sigil. yet I have one that is a combination of the two.

The same can be said for being horsed, too. I've been horsed by deities and otherworldly beings more times than I can count, and when it does occur, there's a definite shift in the atmosphere. I still recall my Patron mounting me several years ago, as while I have no memory of what was said or what I did while he was in the driver's seat, I know that I drank two bottles of scotch back to back and then came back stone sober. At that point in my life, a bottle of scotch would have led to a substantially intoxicated Wanderer, so two was obscene and unheard of.

It made for a costly evening, but it also really opened my eyes to what spirits are capable of. Its damned hard to forget instances like this.

Riders, Drivers are two that drive me crazy. Being ridden is basically being horsed same concept just different terms. Drivers though I hate. Those are the ones who try to jump in and take short term control and run the show but don't try to possess you. Can get you in trouble though.

[quote]Excellent post, monsnoleedra and I've experienced the same. There are points at which that raw observance IS the lesson, too, which can be a little maddening. She's one of those beings that seems to love forcing a change in the way we perceive the universe around us and plays tricks with the light. For instance, I live in the Pacific Northwest, so its usually cloudy and overcast here....she's been thumping the point that the nature of the skies overhead change what we see, so the quality of light and its effects are different when its cloudy, windy, overcast, calm, etc.

Will finish in a bit

[monsnoleedra]

Excellent post, monsnoleedra and I've experienced the same. There are points at which that raw observance IS the lesson, too, which can be a little maddening. She's one of those beings that seems to love forcing a change in the way we perceive the universe around us and plays tricks with the light. For instance, I live in the Pacific Northwest, so its usually cloudy and overcast here....she's been thumping the point that the nature of the skies overhead change what we see, so the quality of light and its effects are different when its cloudy, windy, overcast, calm, etc.

I have not gotten to the point of fully understanding how best to integrate this into my work, but I do understand that both astrological and terrestrial weather impact the way we do magic.

That's been an issue for me as well. How do I integrate what she's shown me into my practice at times. Figure there must be some importance to what i've been shown, especially if she's taken the time and patience to show me in such detail. Yet it is that very detail and passage of time that it requires to observe it that eludes me in discovering how to incorporate it into my practice.

In some ways it's almost as if it is a puzzle I am meant to witness and in the witnessing of it am meant to be flustered by the realization that I can not realize the manifestation of its perfection. Yes, I will strive to attempt to achieve it as come as close to it in both a material sense and a psychological sense but understand I shall never quite perfect it either.

You're not alone there. That act of out-sitting is sometimes the entire point, and the memo won't be had until you've essentially undergone the act of doing so. Not that long ago, Hekate told me to go to a graveyard and sit at the bench. All I was to do was get lost in the vision and observe...it was a powerful experience, though I was damp, cold, and chilled to the bone afterwards.

You know it's funny but of all the places Hekate has taken me the cemetery / graveyard is one she's never really had me sit out in. I've sat out in some desolate places, but never a cemetery or graveyard. Well not a human one anyway, been to some non-human ones where there have been quite a few animal bones.

I've had the same impression, as there is definitely validity to the idea of using a spinning object to connect with the idea of a strophalos, but it doesn't seem to have one explicit shape. The more I dig into this, the more it seems to be that the strophalos itself is a symbol of something far, far more. Just the other day, I was told to grab a mala and spin it as a means of connecting to the energy behind the strophalos concept....it was incredibly effective, but I looked like a dolt twirling a rosary.

I keep getting the idea of a musical type instrument at times for this. One of the images that came to me was the Sistern that is a type of devise you see used in Kemetic religions and associeted with Bastet.