monsnoleedra wrote:I agree there. The further removed we are from the event the more corrupted things become. Not only corrupted but "Revamped" to make it "Fit" any modifications that a new grouping wants to have so it supports some story line or history they need.
Exactly. It gets edited and messed about with to some extent or another, often to the point of being marginally recognizeable at best. Add to this any kind of translation errors or spelling mistakes, and things get weird(er) in a hurry. Enough so, in fact, that when working with specific spirits with established traditions, I'll often ask them what their thoughts are on specific elements of their accepted practices to get some sense of what is and is not useful.
Its led to a lot less bloat where ritual practices are concerned, and its help maintain my focus where the Work is concerned. Otherwise, its all too easy to get stuck on what was essentially the UPG of someone who lived 500+ years ago.
monsnoleedra wrote:Yeah Jade Sol Luna's model is not one that is encountered to much. Which is sort of strange to me when you figure how often you see people go on and on about Chakra's, Karma and other Eastern cosmology things now days.
Is it, in your estimation, worth a read?
monsnoleedra wrote:In some ways I think, here again my own UPG and Opinion, the reason you don't see a clear connection between the Heathen Influence and the Wheel is the disdain that existed early on between Paganism and Heathenism. That was a rather harsh divide right up until the 2000's for sure. You had a lot of Kemetic, Hellene and Roman Wiccan's even a handful of Keltic Wiccan's but you really didn't see a whole lot of Nordic Wiccan's that I recall.
I wonder how much of that animosity is more modern and manufactured, as historically speaking, the Norse were pretty forward-thinking in their way. Some of them did go out raiding as Vikings, but there were also plenty of trade routes established with Arabs and eventually the Chinese, according to what material I've been able to find on the matter.
This becomes particularly muddied as we delve further back into history, so if this is a modern concept, I wonder if it has to do with the ideas that the Norse peoples were violent raiders. In a lot of respects, the Celt-Iberians were worse, as they swept through the whole of Europe and eventually raided modern day Ireland. That's where we get the "Black Irish" thing from, as they (the Celt-Iberians) were one of the major invasions.
monsnoleedra wrote:Yeah don't know why that played out in my mind that way but it did. Sort of got me to thinking about a compass rose to be percise.
Makes sense. I can readily see the connection between the idea of the Compass Rose and light shifting about a statue. If the Axis Mundi is "True North" within this context, then it's going to look a hell of a lot different with even the slightest of changes in course. This, then, impacts both the appearance of the AM & its manifestations.
This concept has gotten me thinking about the overlap, though I do admittedly draw something of a blank when trying to visualize this concept of Hekate as "True North" on a compass.
monsnoleedra wrote:I agree it probably has to be looked at separately. I don't think it would be like a defixiones table though.
To clarify, I was referring to the use of sigils like what you would see on a defixiones tablet, rather than comparing the pottery itself to the tablets. A subtle difference, but an important one, and I hope it clarifies my stance a tad.
While some do use the sigils of spiritual beings on curse-related works, that's often the sort of thing that one should do with some manner of permission. Some spirits don't take too kindly to being used in that kind of way.
Hekate isn't one of them, but the point still bears mentioning.
monsnoleedra wrote:If you look at the one picture that goes with S83 you'll see there are like 4 seal's on that one item.[...]
If this is indeed something of a Potter's Mark, in this instance, then I have to wonder if this is a means of sanctifying a vessel by consecrating it for Hekate in advance of shipment elsewhere. We know that there were some pretty well-established trade routes throughout both Greece and Rome despite warring cults, so it may be that by putting a Goddess' mark on them, they'd be considered as "haunted objects" that were too much trouble to mess with?
I'm totally reaching with this idea, but after reading the text you provided, I'm attempting to take on anthropological view of this to see if I can't understand the thought process behind this. Especially given what you've mentioned here, as if there wasn't a shrine or spiritual center dedicated to Hekate in the area, making pottery for her is rather odd.
monsnoleedra wrote:Let me preface all that follows is my own thoughts and UPG so no historical backing.[...]
[...]So it has to have an archaic source to give it a sense of historical legacy to tie it to an archaic past which sort of gives it that legitimacy. But is that legitimacy for the "Wheel's" sake or for the practitioner's sake? In usage it seems more to be for the practitioner's sake to me to be honest.[...]
We agree on this point, as to me it seems to be a point of reference for the Goddess in lieu of having a similarly accessible point of contact for her. Its kind of like a loan sigil, being used because we don't have another sign with which to do so.
With that said, I do not use signs that look like S83 as a point of contact for Hekate, as I prefer to use the Triskele. The Triskele was the first image I ever saw associated with Hekate aside from the Moon and the baying of dogs, so its where my first memories of her are rooted. That's very likely a "me thing", but its pertinent within the context of my practice.
The potential origin and appearance of the Strophalos, however, seems to be a mystery worth poking at. If nothing else, going back and forth on this subject seems to amuse her, and I'm quite happy to entertain her in this way.
To this end, I did attempt to use S83 as a point of connection in reaching Hekate and got the faintest of glimpses at the other end of the call. It has relation enough to create that response, but I did not experience the image itself as an open line when it was a static image.
When I spun it in my mind, however, that connection got to be much, much stronger, which could be indicative.