Hekate & Her Mysteries

Syncretic Egyptian / Graeco-Roman magic from the collection of texts known as the Papyri Graecae Magicae.
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Re: Hekate & Her Mysteries

Post#41 » Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:36 pm

monsnoleedra wrote:Once again I had the urge to shift the order around a bit so hopefully this will not change things to much.


Shift away. Doing so fits with Hekate anyhow.

monsnoleedra wrote:I first got the idea about back biter blades and first blooding from forging and I think the Orient to be honest. It pretty much had to do with the first time the person as an owner of the blade pulled it from its sheath. Not specifically every time it was pulled from a sheath that it had to be blooded. Then there was the idea of a blade potentially being ensouled during creation so in order for it to know who it's owner was it would be blooded during creation with it's owners blood so the blade would never gain a taste for it's owners blood or turn against him / her.


Ah, I got you now. You're referencing this as a means of owning the blade, and I've heard some versions of the same in some circles. Usually, this manifests as "oh, it bit me...guess its mine now".

A friend of mine in Arizona went further with this and would blood a blade every time it came out of the sheath as a part of both ritual practice and day to day carry thereof. If that were a requirement for fixed blades, I'd only ever carry a folder, as I view my blood as being sacred and part of my sovereignty.

As such, blooding a blade or runes or a khatvanga are all instances of demarcating ownership and allegiance.

monsnoleedra wrote:I can see sticking a blade into the earth though as that also ties into the idea of claiming but it also to a degree ties into the idea of both breaking the dragon's back but also of breaking both dragon lines or fairy lines. Both of those idea's sort of loosely tie into the notion of breaking an ant line where you draw your finger across the path ants make which causes them to loose their way and become confused and loose their pathway / energy lines. But in the concept of ley lines it also breaks the energy flow. Potentially even diverting or ending / truncating the flow point if the blade or spike is left in the earth. Your ability to show power over such "fields" would in a way demonstrate authority and control over both the land and it's energy, thereby claiming it before all things. Sort of the idea of the King and the Land are one, so therefor you are now the King and ruler.


Exactly, though I don't go so far as to view this as an act of breaking the dragon's back or wonking out ley lines. Instead, its more about adding a shunt to the conduit as a means of benefitting from the power and providence already present within the locale. I don't see it as an intensely martial thing in its nature, but it could well be used in this way to an extreme degree.

In instances where such a ritual maneuver has been used in a pain-causing way, I can see the landvaettir present being more than a little leery and disinterested in interacting with humans. Once bitten, twice shy.

I have found, however, that diverting or truncating that energy and then pouring it back into the land with additional boons attached goes a long, long ways towards building immense trust. For instance, I was creating an oil that would give a spirit more power in the space in which I live. This spirit is a trusted and longterm friend of mine...someone I've interacted with endlessly, so I felt comfortable insisting upon him being allowed to become more manifest here.

The spirits of place fought me on this process...hard. They kept blowing out the candle, soaking it with water, and essentially creating adverse weather in response to my work, so I explained to them what I was doing, why I was doing it, and then brought the arrangement inside and proceeded to do the deed.

The whole time, the spirits of place were looking at me from inside and outside the home, acting like they were judgey villagers from Minecraft, but they were essentially unable to interfere at that point. They weren't happy, but they were powerless on account of the wards inside the home.

It was only after I'd completed my work and then used my spirit buddy's energy to heal the land that the spirits thereof let out a happy sigh and responded with understanding around what I was doing. Up until that moment, they were pissed off because people had disrespected them and taken from them, whereas it was in this act that I was actually creating mutual prosperity from this act.

That act garnered quite a bit of trust, but only after I got through the phase of having grumpy old landspirits messing about. If you're going to Work the land in this respect and act as King, then building that trust is paramount.

But that goes back to that core understanding we were talking about:
Magic many times is about demonstration of both force and ability.


It is indeed, as not always will the audience have any real understanding of just what the hel it is you're looking to accomplish. This occurs with people and spirits alike, and once they come to understand your methodologies and intentions, things tend to be a fair bit more peaceful.

That isn't to say that it will always be peaceful, as there are times where natural entities need to be pacified or conquered in order to serve the greater good. However, when milk and honey will suffice, let them.

Yet more importantly is presenting it in such a way that it is understood and comprehended by those who observe it and can convey what they have seen or witnessed.


Seconded, as I agree entirely.

In this Hekate creates some situations that are both enlightening but also creates some situations that are about as clear as mud. Even among her own practitioners I've found that she tends to give us terms, phrases and images that often conflict or down right contradict each other on the surface. Yet I wonder at times is it the image that is conflicting or is it the words that we use that cause the confliction or is it how we see the image vs how we think we see them.


Oh yeah, major parallels with my practices here, as that conflict seems to be a rather large part of the point. Growth and change are had through adversity, and its through that meeting point in the middle, however calm or violent, that a cancellation of the extremes happens and real development occurs.

Some of this conflict strikes me as manufactured surface tension, for want of a better means of describing it, but that is often how spiritis of this kind communicate and help us to change. Many times, what we initially perceive as conflict is the act of cancelling that conflict out either partially or in entirety as a process of inciting this change.

We might initially perceive it as being this terrible, wrong kind of affair at first, but that's a lot of how these kinds of developments within the meta of one's life begin to matriculate. We see the same kind of experience found in Qliphothic magical practices, and its a requirement for the kind of transformations we're looking to create through magic.

This, too, ties in to the idea of death and dying from a shamanic point of view, as that's ultimately the most threatening thing that could ever be done to us as living beings with a fleshy vessel.

It's funny but I resisted the idea of both death and being any sort of shamanic practitioner for years. but the more I resisted the more it got pushed into my face. What's interesting though is that I do not like the title Shaman or shamanic practitioner but I find if I do not use it people tend to put it on me none the less. So I settle for Shamanic Practitioner. It's the same as being a Priest for Hekate, I resist that one as well. Heck even have asked her about it. She tells me I do not want you in that capacity so do not call you for that. Have friends though that keep pushing me to pursue it and can't understand why I do not. But can't seem to grasp that it is not my path though I do follow some of it's tenants.


Yep, that. I'm reminded of someone who was once a friend to me, and perhaps more of one to someone I once knew. This individual was called and claimed by the Morrigan, but made a point of flying in the face of this time and again despite the repeated dreams, ongoing signs, and overabundance of indications of "hey, little girl...you are mine" going on in her life.

At about the time she came to me and asked me for my opinion, I told her what was what, and she really didn't care for it. Resisted it all the same and had real issues with what I said to her on the subject....even broke away from our friendship for a while. Well, not terribly long thereafter she was driving around with a passenger in the car, and she ended up getting into a really gnarly car wreck. By all estimations, she should have died, and her boyfriend that was with her damn near did.

You see, he was a distraction, and this was part of the memo that was conveyed. He's now a quadraplegic and she has owned up to being owned by the Morrigan. It took this kind of substantial show of force for her to recognize that She claimed her, as the Morrigan wasn't asking. Sometimes, this is how it goes.

Sometimes we just wind up priests/priestesses for specific deities, and there are no ifs, ands, or buts about it. It simply "is" and that's that. Such was the case for me and the Horned God, as he claimed me at the age of three. I've been working with and for him ever since, and he pushes me hard. I'm his Rocinante...one of them anyway. I don't fight it, as there's no point to my doing so when my life & efforts have a positive impact on those around me.

I don't, however, run around calling myself a Priest of the Horned God or anything of the kind. That'd be a kind of pointless label, as it doesn't really tell you anything beyond conveying "ok, this dude works with [ ]". "Shamanic Practitioner" is a bit more telling, as is the adornment of "Sorcerer" in this context.

We are defined more by our processes than we are by what's written on our nametags.

Yep. We become what I refer to as a spoke runner or rider. An anchor holds us in both worlds at the same time, though it doesn't hold us in the same place but slides along. So we never know quite where the other ends lies in the other world only that it is there, like an open circuit waiting to be connected and opened when needed.


Agreed. Its a good way to look at this too.

Unfortunately it also has the negative at times of leaving you with this sensation of wishing you could go home for the final time. Longing for that home you wait to return to but can't quite remember all the time as it is sort of foggy at the same time.


I hear that, as that's a sensation I can remember having from really early on in my childhood. I was a weird kid in so many ways, and that desire to "get home" to a place that wasn't the manifest world certainly didn't help things.

There's a different kind of soul-tiredness that hits you when you work in this way too, but that can be difficult to explain to others. Its something that you either understand through experience or don't get at all.

I had that same lesson with my Grandfather from a long distance revelation. That was one of my first exposures to the idea of the Kiss of Passing / Good bye.


That brought some tears for me, as it seems we link up in that experience too.

I didn't really notice new spirits so much as I noticed corrupted or mutated spirits. In the cities it's worse, almost as if the electricity and concrete just bends and deforms their bodies as they are separated from the natural elements. Yes electric is natural, but it's all bent and twisted in the neon signs and power grid. It doesn't disapate into the earth it runs on rails or down wires and cracks in the air. Even the energy in the water doesn't get transferred into the land it's pushed through drains and pipes until maybe it's released into infested waterways or the sea / ocean where it gets absorbed into the water. There it tries to take it's natural shape back but it takes time to recover if it ever does. But those that are hung in the city never do and become more and more deformed and corrupted, trapped.

Not to say all of them for some of them do adapt to the environment and actually do thrive. But they are the exception vice the rule. But they are more like rodents than the larger wild life that once inhabited the area.


It is entirely possible that I was experiencing and observing mutated/corrupted spirits in this context, as I had gone to Japan twice as a teenager, and haven't gone back as an adult. I see the world rather differently, given the decade and a half since I was last in that space, and its entirely possible that I would see these spirits differently too.

As you are correct, the energy present in this space doesn't follow the same flow anymore. Geoelectric currents are a thing, and with all of the additional iron, titanium, copper, light fixtures, bulbs, LEDs, glass, and so forth in our environment, spirits have had to adapt to these changes. There's a lot of truth to the idea that the different materials that make up our homes now have an effect, as you can feel the difference in homes that use brick instead of gypsum. Locales that use limestone tile or wood instead of carpet or linoleum have a different vibe and flow to them.

When aquafors aren't interrupted by massive jolts of electricity and the resources aren't diverted quite so readily, there's much more peace. Small towns feel different in this and other respects for a reason.

Thinking this through, I'll need to watch for mutated entities as a part of my work now, as its a really solid idea. I can think of a few ways to make use of this while providing a benefit to people and spirits alike.

Perhaps just my experience but I've found she prefers natural productions than manmade. A good mist or fogbank or smoke from a fire will produce where a fog machine does nothing. But then I admit I live in an area where there really is no reason you shouldn't be making a real fire or using a actual misty rain or morning / evening fog.


Its entirely possible that the natural occurences are more profoundly powerful in your locale because of what controls them, too. I've noticed substantial differences in the nature of various manifestations, and it largely seems to be related to the land itself.

For instance, in Phoenix, a manmade fire isn't appreciated most of the time. Its too damned hot, so unless the spirit is a fire spirit, its largely disinterested in being made manifest through fire unless the fire itself contains something to aid in the manifestation of whatever you're conjuring.

Water, however, worked amazingly as an offering and means of manifestation because it would cool things off. Something you generally don't see much of in the desert.

In Portland, water is considerably less interesting, however, as its everywhere. It rains 75% of the year here, so that's not really a special event. We live in a temperate rain forest after all.

Manmade fire, however, goes a really long way here. If one is able to do so in the forest with natural materials, especially those that are wildharvested with respect, the manifestations can be enormously powerful. I learned this firsthand when learning PNW-oriented survival skills from a friend of mine, and its stuck with me since.

In Denver, both high heat and water are common because the weather is essentially bipolar, so things that scent the wind are of particularly high value. The winds there carry those scents a ways, bringing others to the table in a hurry.

In Sacramento, water is useful during the summer and fire during the winter. Incense goes a fair ways, especially if offered in ritual, but the most gain is had through pacifying the angry dead. It is, however, an area far more steeped in violence than most people seem to realize, so this too makes sense.

I think one of the things Hekate pushes home, for me anyway, is that she is the mistress of liminal spaces. Not just for the home but also the forest and field, civilization and uncivilized, night & day, clear & cloudy, etc. SO when I sit and look out or stand outside and look up the mountain and the mist or fog is hanging on the mountain and the tree's are like silhouette's and barely there its all illusions. You have to look but at the same time you can't really trust you eyes for what you see might not be what is really there.


Well said and I agree. That's some of what I've experienced too, as coming into a space with the understanding that there is more than what you initially see has been striking me as part of the purpose and point of what she teaches. That little nugget of info is an important inclusion that she seems most insistent that I not forget.

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Re: Hekate & Her Mysteries

Post#42 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:05 am

Wanderer wrote: Shift away. Doing so fits with Hekate anyhow.


There are times I think she purposely does that to make us shift our though process. I find at times I'll read something then it's like I have to go back and change the order I've read it in to appease her to make it make sense.

Ah, I got you now. You're referencing this as a means of owning the blade, and I've heard some versions of the same in some circles. Usually, this manifests as "oh, it bit me...guess its mine now".


I've seen that as a reverse concept to that the blade has accepted the person as it's owner or equal. Also seen it on another level in that it's seen sort of as the idea of installing a bit of your soul into the blade via the blooding process. My personal opinion in that regard is it's sort of akin to the idea of infusing a bit of blood during the forging process.

A friend of mine in Arizona went further with this and would blood a blade every time it came out of the sheath as a part of both ritual practice and day to day carry thereof. If that were a requirement for fixed blades, I'd only ever carry a folder, as I view my blood as being sacred and part of my sovereignty.


I've seen that with blades that are used in killing or blood shedding. Mostly those that are used in hunting or combat knives is where I saw or heard people doing it the most though. Then it was more personal choice than anything. But then it would be more of your buck knives or what you might call your short blades, say 6 inches or more not your sword type blades.

As such, blooding a blade or runes or a khatvanga are all instances of demarcating ownership and allegiance.


Runes and such I think would fall under first blooding which I would agree would be ownership and allegiance.


Exactly, though I don't go so far as to view this as an act of breaking the dragon's back or wonking out ley lines. Instead, its more about adding a shunt to the conduit as a means of benefitting from the power and providence already present within the locale. I don't see it as an intensely martial thing in its nature, but it could well be used in this way to an extreme degree.


Driving an iron rod or spike into the back definitely is not marital in nature. Usually it was used to terminate or destroy a flow or disrupt a flow. Doing so was not done to endear you to the local spirit population.

But here is the crazy thing, I wonder at times if it wasn't "encouraged" or "requested" by them to stop a blight or corruption at times as well? I can't quite say why but there are places I've gone to that it's like a sense of "Here is where they had them driven in"

I have found, however, that diverting or truncating that energy and then pouring it back into the land with additional boons attached goes a long, long ways towards building immense trust. For instance, I was creating an oil that would give a spirit more power in the space in which I live. This spirit is a trusted and longterm friend of mine...someone I've interacted with endlessly, so I felt comfortable insisting upon him being allowed to become more manifest here.

The spirits of place fought me on this process...hard. They kept blowing out the candle, soaking it with water, and essentially creating adverse weather in response to my work, so I explained to them what I was doing, why I was doing it, and then brought the arrangement inside and proceeded to do the deed.

The whole time, the spirits of place were looking at me from inside and outside the home, acting like they were judgey villagers from Minecraft, but they were essentially unable to interfere at that point. They weren't happy, but they were powerless on account of the wards inside the home.

It was only after I'd completed my work and then used my spirit buddy's energy to heal the land that the spirits thereof let out a happy sigh and responded with understanding around what I was doing. Up until that moment, they were pissed off because people had disrespected them and taken from them, whereas it was in this act that I was actually creating mutual prosperity from this act.

That act garnered quite a bit of trust, but only after I got through the phase of having grumpy old landspirits messing about. If you're going to Work the land in this respect and act as King, then building that trust is paramount.


Those can be helpful but can also get you into even more trouble. Sometimes we can mistakenly be drawn into the boundary disputes in the spirit realm. We think we have delicate issues between human neighbors, sometimes the boundaries between spirits are worse.

I tried to heal some issues from where previous human tenants screwed up the land and though i'd done a pretty good job at it. Unfortunately, it made some of the local spirits quite happy as their influences acted extremely fast yet they were not the deep long term influences. Those moved slow and were not happy but because of that their displeasure didn't come through quite as fast or easily. Yet when it did show up it was much harsher and more devastating.

Part of my issue came about because the older spirits of place were in the deep places or hidden in the wilds and only reached out so often. The local spirits usually were only youngsters basically in terms of how long they had actually been there. Yeah they had memories but many had different concepts of time and how memories were stored.


It is indeed, as not always will the audience have any real understanding of just what the hel it is you're looking to accomplish. This occurs with people and spirits alike, and once they come to understand your methodologies and intentions, things tend to be a fair bit more peaceful.


For the most part I agree here.

That isn't to say that it will always be peaceful, as there are times where natural entities need to be pacified or conquered in order to serve the greater good. However, when milk and honey will suffice, let them.


Yep

Oh yeah, major parallels with my practices here, as that conflict seems to be a rather large part of the point. Growth and change are had through adversity, and its through that meeting point in the middle, however calm or violent, that a cancellation of the extremes happens and real development occurs.

Some of this conflict strikes me as manufactured surface tension, for want of a better means of describing it, but that is often how spiritis of this kind communicate and help us to change. Many times, what we initially perceive as conflict is the act of cancelling that conflict out either partially or in entirety as a process of inciting this change.

We might initially perceive it as being this terrible, wrong kind of affair at first, but that's a lot of how these kinds of developments within the meta of one's life begin to matriculate. We see the same kind of experience found in Qliphothic magical practices, and its a requirement for the kind of transformations we're looking to create through magic.


All of this sort of ties into the idea that for me Hekate uses the idea of Juxtaposing material or idea's frequently as a teaching method. Life and death, light and shadow, good and evil, right and wrong, civilization and non-civilization, conflict & peace are all basically compare and contrast.

It seems on the surface to be conflict but it's closer to a compare and contrast. yet in the comparing and contrasting you have the conflicting action between the two positions.

This, too, ties in to the idea of death and dying from a shamanic point of view, as that's ultimately the most threatening thing that could ever be done to us as living beings with a fleshy vessel.


That one is sort of debatable.


I hear that, as that's a sensation I can remember having from really early on in my childhood. I was a weird kid in so many ways, and that desire to "get home" to a place that wasn't the manifest world certainly didn't help things.

There's a different kind of soul-tiredness that hits you when you work in this way too, but that can be difficult to explain to others. Its something that you either understand through experience or don't get at all.


The weird kid syndrome, darn that brings back so many memories. I'd be normal if it wasn't for being weird ha ha ha

I wonder if the soul tiredness your speaking of is that feeling of being stretched out and being sort of thin at times? Being super heavy and super light at the same time both in the body and out of it.

That brought some tears for me, as it seems we link up in that experience too.


Yep one of the first ones I really put together. Was stationed in Scotland at the time and walked into my barracks room. Saw a coffin laying on my bed and locked in and there was my grandfather laying in it. That was the first part of it to occur. Got word from Red Cross a few days later that he had died.


It is entirely possible that I was experiencing and observing mutated/corrupted spirits in this context, as I had gone to Japan twice as a teenager, and haven't gone back as an adult. I see the world rather differently, given the decade and a half since I was last in that space, and its entirely possible that I would see these spirits differently too.


Could be. I was an adult when I went to Japan but had been having quite a few experiences before then so had quite a different outlook when I went there.

When aquafors aren't interrupted by massive jolts of electricity and the resources aren't diverted quite so readily, there's much more peace. Small towns feel different in this and other respects for a reason.


I tend to do much better in the mountains, small rural area's or small towns than I do in large cities. In cities I am on edge and very jumpy all the time. Almost like I am constantly being shocked by the electrical currents flowing all over the place and the energy being projected from everybody. I'm not specifically an empath but I do get crushed rather quickly by the closeness of everything.

Thinking this through, I'll need to watch for mutated entities as a part of my work now, as its a really solid idea. I can think of a few ways to make use of this while providing a benefit to people and spirits alike.


You can definitely see or sense some weird looking entities.

Its entirely possible that the natural occurences are more profoundly powerful in your locale because of what controls them, too. I've noticed substantial differences in the nature of various manifestations, and it largely seems to be related to the land itself.


That's quite possible. I've noticed that there are greater and lesser creature's of place that are most definitely tied to the land. Some are more primordial in nature and more elemental in nature.
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Re: Hekate & Her Mysteries

Post#43 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:29 pm

monsnoleedra wrote:There are times I think she purposely does that to make us shift our though process. I find at times I'll read something then it's like I have to go back and change the order I've read it in to appease her to make it make sense.


I'm glad I'm not the only one with that particular experience. Its like listening to a song forward and backwards, and then sometimes getting a different memo based on the orientation of the information. I'm remined of this poem:
"Our generation will be known for nothing.
Never will anybody say,
We were the peak of mankind.
That is wrong, the truth is
Our generation was a failure.
Thinking that
We actually succeeded
Is a waste. And we know
Living only for money and power
Is the way to go.
Being loving, respectful, and kind
Is a dumb thing to do.
Forgetting about that time,
Will not be easy, but we will try.
Changing our world for the better
Is something we never did.
Giving up
Was how we handled our problems.
Working hard
Was a joke.
We knew that
People thought we couldn’t come back
That might be true,
Unless we turn things around"


Its meant to be read both forward and backwards as a means of more fully understanding what's being presented. The same can be said for the angles found in sigils and workings, as you cannae see the full truth of anything without looking at it from multiple angles. I imagine that's part of the reason for her multiplicity and myriad forms, too, as each of them is a memo unto themselves.

This resonates really strongly for me, as the same can be found in many of the Hindotibetan practices. Entities like Chakrasamvara are known for having a number of heads, looking every which way, but his essence manifests as a rainbow too. He cannot be understood simply, nor can Hekate.

As such, there's more depth and substantially more truth to be found within those depths, but it requires a deep dive and semi-constant evaluation/reevaluation in order to really pare things down appropriately. I dig that, as there's this nigh-alchemical definement and redefinement that goes on as a part of this process, making for both a stronger connection and a better understanding of the expansiveness of our universe and all of the things in it.

I've seen that as a reverse concept to that the blade has accepted the person as it's owner or equal. Also seen it on another level in that it's seen sort of as the idea of installing a bit of your soul into the blade via the blooding process. My personal opinion in that regard is it's sort of akin to the idea of infusing a bit of blood during the forging process.


Logical. I could see that, though I've never really considered it in that light before. Thank you for suggesting that twist on things - in this instance, its both a little of column A and a little of column B...I like that.

I've seen that with blades that are used in killing or blood shedding. Mostly those that are used in hunting or combat knives is where I saw or heard people doing it the most though. Then it was more personal choice than anything. But then it would be more of your buck knives or what you might call your short blades, say 6 inches or more not your sword type blades.


That sounds like M. He was ex-military, so the blades I saw him doing this with were of the type to do that sort of damage. I've heard stories, too, of blades turning against their wielders, so this would make a fair bit of sense.

I'm reminded of the stories of Muramasa and Masamune, too: https://mysteriousuniverse.org/2017/03/ ... -of-japan/
If there were a question of allegiance to be had with a sword or otherwise edged tool, stories of this kind seem to describe a background that's useful to us.

Runes and such I think would fall under first blooding which I would agree would be ownership and allegiance.


There is that, but also the act of "feeding" the runes and entering them into your blood. Speaking experientially, that's a big part of learning them.


Driving an iron rod or spike into the back definitely is not marital in nature. Usually it was used to terminate or destroy a flow or disrupt a flow. Doing so was not done to endear you to the local spirit population.

But here is the crazy thing, I wonder at times if it wasn't "encouraged" or "requested" by them to stop a blight or corruption at times as well? I can't quite say why but there are places I've gone to that it's like a sense of "Here is where they had them driven in"


I'm going to have to PM you on that. Let's just say it became uniquely relevant in the past week.

Those can be helpful but can also get you into even more trouble. Sometimes we can mistakenly be drawn into the boundary disputes in the spirit realm. We think we have delicate issues between human neighbors, sometimes the boundaries between spirits are worse.


That's an understatement, though a pertinent one, as spirits do have a kind of venn diagram of influence going on relative to their chosen areas. I've been drawn into such disputes more than once over the years, often by accident, and so that's informed my interactions with beings that ask for such help. I typically make a point of discussing this at length with all of the spirits in a given area, as its a valid concern for them just as much as it is for us.

We might not like our neighbors, but they often move out. Spirit neighbors, not so much.

I tried to heal some issues from where previous human tenants screwed up the land and though i'd done a pretty good job at it. Unfortunately, it made some of the local spirits quite happy as their influences acted extremely fast yet they were not the deep long term influences. Those moved slow and were not happy but because of that their displeasure didn't come through quite as fast or easily. Yet when it did show up it was much harsher and more devastating.

Part of my issue came about because the older spirits of place were in the deep places or hidden in the wilds and only reached out so often. The local spirits usually were only youngsters basically in terms of how long they had actually been there. Yeah they had memories but many had different concepts of time and how memories were stored.


I know just what you mean, and as a result I rarely single out any specific landspirit unless that's somehow a requirement. Even then, offerings are made en masse to ALL beings of place knowing full well that I'll positively influence both the older, harder-to-reach beings and the new guys on the block.

When I've screwed up, however, I've typically made it right by placating the older spirits of place through consistent, ongoing offerings to that locale. They might not want whatever treats I offer at first, but the Law of the Jungle still presides: that is to say that whever moves quickest gets the treat.

Most of those older, less motivated spiritual landmasses still understand that, so their lackadaisical attitude tends to shift a fair bit when they realize that something unusual is up for grabs. That tends to create substantial motivation, while also serving to give these old world beings the ability to remind the young ones that they're still a power.

This is particularly well-understood within the forest, as the truly old coexist with the new.

For the most part I agree here.


Good deal. :)

All of this sort of ties into the idea that for me Hekate uses the idea of Juxtaposing material or idea's frequently as a teaching method. Life and death, light and shadow, good and evil, right and wrong, civilization and non-civilization, conflict & peace are all basically compare and contrast.

It seems on the surface to be conflict but it's closer to a compare and contrast. yet in the comparing and contrasting you have the conflicting action between the two positions.


Exactly! Beautifully stated and I agree, as all of these things are part and parcel of our existence and the processes involved in existing. This idea that they're somehow alien and opposite doesn't really mesh with the worldview I've come to understand, as all things are a part of the whole.

The very fact that they exist then makes them a part of the Whole, which seems to be a significant point that Hekate won't let me forget. Especially when I come across things that really shouldn't exist.

This, too, ties in to the idea of death and dying from a shamanic point of view, as that's ultimately the most threatening thing that could ever be done to us as living beings with a fleshy vessel.


That one is sort of debatable.


I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this.

The weird kid syndrome, darn that brings back so many memories. I'd be normal if it wasn't for being weird ha ha ha

I wonder if the soul tiredness your speaking of is that feeling of being stretched out and being sort of thin at times? Being super heavy and super light at the same time both in the body and out of it.


:lol: Knowing myself, I'd still be weird. I'd just be a different kind of weird, as that seems to be one of the more manifest aspects of my personality.

There's definitely an element of feeling a bit like pizza dough, where the soul-tiredness is concerned, but there's more to it than that. Sometimes I feel stretched thin, other times I just feel fat, lumpy and heavy as a result of these spirit interactions. Seems to vary rather substantially, and there are times, too, where I'll feel really invigorated by something kind of silly and small.

Do you get that at all?

Yep one of the first ones I really put together. Was stationed in Scotland at the time and walked into my barracks room. Saw a coffin laying on my bed and locked in and there was my grandfather laying in it. That was the first part of it to occur. Got word from Red Cross a few days later that he had died.


I had a similar experience when my ex-girlfriend passed. She and I had a falling-out many years ago, and a few days later I could feel a horrible pressure in my wrists, just above where the radius and ulna meet. This slipped into a dreamlike vision of blood, pain, saturated water, and looking down to see a bathtub filling.

I got word, soon thereafter, that R had taken her own life. She bled out in a tub. That's something that sticks with you.

Could be. I was an adult when I went to Japan but had been having quite a few experiences before then so had quite a different outlook when I went there.


I was a child when I went, so my mindset and worldview was quite infantile at that point despite my ongoing, daily interactions with spirits. Such is the case when you're a teenager, so while I kind of chuckle at myself in hindsight, stupidity and a lack of awareness comes with the territory.

I tend to do much better in the mountains, small rural area's or small towns than I do in large cities. In cities I am on edge and very jumpy all the time. Almost like I am constantly being shocked by the electrical currents flowing all over the place and the energy being projected from everybody. I'm not specifically an empath but I do get crushed rather quickly by the closeness of everything.


I can relate. Some stores and locales can be deeply unpleasant for me, but I've learned to work with it as both a skillset and as a means of connecting more deeply with others in a cityscape. Living in places like northern California and Phoenix, Arizona pretty much forced me to get over my limitations on that front.

There are times where I'll go into the forest to unwind and connect differently, but I find that I have less issues now that I've learned how to limit these connections where necessary/

You can definitely see or sense some weird looking entities.


True that. I had one such instance last weekend, as I connected with a being at a restaurant. It was like this entity was trying to put on a show as though it were a deity when in fact it had just cobbled together the images and armaments assocated with the decor. Struck me as a house spirit who was just trying really hard to bring business in despite being stuck in a place that was not at all its normal habitat.

That's quite possible. I've noticed that there are greater and lesser creature's of place that are most definitely tied to the land. Some are more primordial in nature and more elemental in nature.


I concur. There are many kinds of landveittir, and they are not always hugely present and assuming. Sometimes, they feel more like a beating heart present in the land. They're there, but they're not hugely attentive until you do something to wake them up. When that happens, things can get a little wild.

There's an entity like that about 40 minutes from my house, and it seems to slumber deep within the earth. He's present, but really only active at the start of summer, and after that he tends to hibernate until someone does something "big" enough to wake him. He's not unfriendly, but he's essentially a Thurse - he's just a massive elemental being who doesn't much get along with humans.

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monsnoleedra
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Re: Hekate & Her Mysteries

Post#44 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:10 pm

Wanderer wrote:I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this.


Though I'd pull this up here to the top. This is in reference to shamanic death and such.

I once inquired if there was anything worse than death and got an answer to that actually. As I stated elsewhere I had died in my youth and had vague memories of it and "Dream" memories of it. Yet I also had what you might say are presumptions about it as well that I had acquired over time.

Well Hekate granted my wish of seeing what was worse. It's a state of not being dead but not being alive either. Yet your in a place within your body (sort of) where nothing basically registers as being working. Your hovering just before the barrier or veil and you have no contact with the outside world or the spirit world. There are no ancestors to welcome you or guide you into the afterlife or spirit realm. There are no connections to your inner mind, no input from your external body and what thoughts you do have are not really reflections of your current existence or experiences. It's not even a true sense of limbo for you are but your not. It's not life but it's not death, it doesn't even meet the idea of the void. What's bad is none of that is even a good description of what it was like.

As a Shamanic Death you know the Veil and what is behind you and have a connection to the crossing. Even in death you have a connection to the ancestor's and the process. In what Hekate showed me you have nothing. Even the restless dead are closer to their entrapment and suffering so still have something.

When I watched the Disney movie COCO it showed the dead evaporating once the lasting living person had forgotten about them. It sent a shudder down my spine, it sort of pushed my memory back into that place. The only thing is it's to be forgotten in your own body and mind but your still in some sort of living like body that for all intent and purpose is dead to you and everyone else.


I'm glad I'm not the only one with that particular experience. Its like listening to a song forward and backwards, and then sometimes getting a different memo based on the orientation of the information.


That's an interesting way to look at it actually.

I'm remined of this poem:
"Our generation will be known for nothing.
Never will anybody say,
We were the peak of mankind.
That is wrong, the truth is
Our generation was a failure.
Thinking that
We actually succeeded
Is a waste. And we know
Living only for money and power
Is the way to go.
Being loving, respectful, and kind
Is a dumb thing to do.
Forgetting about that time,
Will not be easy, but we will try.
Changing our world for the better
Is something we never did.
Giving up
Was how we handled our problems.
Working hard
Was a joke.
We knew that
People thought we couldn’t come back
That might be true,
Unless we turn things around"


Its meant to be read both forward and backwards as a means of more fully understanding what's being presented. The same can be said for the angles found in sigils and workings, as you cannae see the full truth of anything without looking at it from multiple angles. I imagine that's part of the reason for her multiplicity and myriad forms, too, as each of them is a memo unto themselves.


I liked that. Very truthful about not really seeing the truth without looking at it from multiple angles.

This resonates really strongly for me, as the same can be found in many of the Hindotibetan practices. Entities like Chakrasamvara are known for having a number of heads, looking every which way, but his essence manifests as a rainbow too. He cannot be understood simply, nor can Hekate.


I may have to look more into the Hindu - Tibetan practices. I have only a passing knowledge of them. Have more knowledge of the Draconic lore of the Orient than anything I think as I've always been intrigued with them since I was little.

As such, there's more depth and substantially more truth to be found within those depths, but it requires a deep dive and semi-constant evaluation/reevaluation in order to really pare things down appropriately. I dig that, as there's this nigh-alchemical definement and redefinement that goes on as a part of this process, making for both a stronger connection and a better understanding of the expansiveness of our universe and all of the things in it.


I think when it comes to Hekate that is very much a true statement. She is a constant evaluation / re-evaluation of perspective, concepts and history. In that it's like working with an alchemical formula and the mixture is always changing to produce both new products and refining old ones.



That sounds like M. He was ex-military, so the blades I saw him doing this with were of the type to do that sort of damage. I've heard stories, too, of blades turning against their wielders, so this would make a fair bit of sense.


I wonder if there is a differing concept of blade and blood lore influencing things based upon our particular callings? Figure I am retired military and more of that influence. Even within the Shamanic circles I would fall under more of a Warrior Shamanic influence than a healer influence.

During my time in the service I tended to be called more by Sekor and one I simply called the Huntsman while Hekate and Artemis stepped back some. The Huntsman was more like a Herne the Hunter type figure in appearance, though at times I wondered if he might not be something else.

I'm reminded of the stories of Muramasa and Masamune, too: https://mysteriousuniverse.org/2017/03/ ... -of-japan/
If there were a question of allegiance to be had with a sword or otherwise edged tool, stories of this kind seem to describe a background that's useful to us.


Those are good examples. I think some of the Arthurian tales also make some good examples of noble or cursed swords and how they aided or hindered their users. Thing with the long swords though is many times it seems the sword is noble or cursed due due to the actions of it's owner more so than the make of the sword itself.

There is that, but also the act of "feeding" the runes and entering them into your blood. Speaking experientially, that's a big part of learning them.


Runes were one of those things I never really could get the hang of. I used the type made of stone and used the type made of wood. Did the blooding thing with both sets to bring them to life and make them mine or align them to me. But just never could get a feel for them. Always had a sense of making a set out of Holly but never followed through on that which might have been the issue though.


I'm going to have to PM you on that. Let's just say it became uniquely relevant in the past week.


Will be waiting to hear from you.

That's an understatement, though a pertinent one, as spirits do have a kind of venn diagram of influence going on relative to their chosen areas. I've been drawn into such disputes more than once over the years, often by accident, and so that's informed my interactions with beings that ask for such help. I typically make a point of discussing this at length with all of the spirits in a given area, as its a valid concern for them just as much as it is for us.

We might not like our neighbors, but they often move out. Spirit neighbors, not so much.


I got involved a few times, a couple by accident. One I stepped into it feet first and was up to my neck before I realized what I had done.

Had one where a neighbor had asked us to clear cut some land and we could keep the wood for fire wood. Had done all the offerings and thank you and such. Though it was all set to go. Had been cutting for a bit when I came to this younger Oak and was cutting it down. Got wracked across the eyes by a branch and cut all over my arms and such. Heard all sorts of noise and such in the woods and higher up on the mountain. Got the message I wasn't supposed to be the one cutting in the area anymore. My son and his friends finished clearing the area. Once I stopped all the noise and commotion stopped.


I know just what you mean, and as a result I rarely single out any specific landspirit unless that's somehow a requirement. Even then, offerings are made en masse to ALL beings of place knowing full well that I'll positively influence both the older, harder-to-reach beings and the new guys on the block.


Yeah I try not to single out any particular spirit either. About the only time I single one out is if it's for a particular spring or something like that.

When I've screwed up, however, I've typically made it right by placating the older spirits of place through consistent, ongoing offerings to that locale. They might not want whatever treats I offer at first, but the Law of the Jungle still presides: that is to say that whever moves quickest gets the treat.


With those I consider which type of spirits I am working with or who I am aiming things towards. If they are avian for instance I place them high, if land then upon the land for instance. But generic offerings such as tobacco then I just spread those out or leave them as a sacred site.

Most of those older, less motivated spiritual landmasses still understand that, so their lackadaisical attitude tends to shift a fair bit when they realize that something unusual is up for grabs. That tends to create substantial motivation, while also serving to give these old world beings the ability to remind the young ones that they're still a power.

This is particularly well-understood within the forest, as the truly old coexist with the new.


That gets sort of interesting at times. You have some older spirits of place that are what I call sleepers in that they rest for long periods of time and then wake up for perhaps days or longer. Then you have the wanders, They to are ancient but they wander. They are like the apex predator who has a range of hundreds of miles and may only return to an area every 12 months or so. But for the old spirit that turns into decades or longer, so the younger spirits forget or only have tales of them.

Where I used to live we had one that came around about every ten to twelve years was it's cycle. It showed up when we first moved in and it showed up again about 11 years later. Yet I ran into it in another part of the forest about 30 miles away from where I lived once when I was on my way to work and had stopped and just wandered into the woods. An old thing it was, you smelt it and felt it when it was near. Can't be sure but I think I encountered it twice where I was stationed at during my last assignment in the military. I had to go out on rounds which meant I would be walking the compound at night, which was in the mountains. I retired from that place so stayed in the same general area so not unrealistic it could be the same entity. Figure I've lived in this general area since 1996 and I've probably encountered it 12 times at various locations around its

Anyway it was funny when it would come into the area behind our house. You'd hear other animals howling like they were king of the mountain. Then it would let out a howl or something and they'd all go silent, you could hear a pin drop after that. Same with the energy in the area, one day one charge then it's energy would move in and the whole place would change. It wasn't just that you had the old Spirit move into the area but you had the animals that moved with it come in as well. basicalyl the king / queen and its court.


:lol: Knowing myself, I'd still be weird. I'd just be a different kind of weird, as that seems to be one of the more manifest aspects of my personality.


Yeah I'd still be the weird kid as well

There's definitely an element of feeling a bit like pizza dough, where the soul-tiredness is concerned, but there's more to it than that. Sometimes I feel stretched thin, other times I just feel fat, lumpy and heavy as a result of these spirit interactions. Seems to vary rather substantially, and there are times, too, where I'll feel really invigorated by something kind of silly and small.

Do you get that at all?


That's what I call the water weight feeling. All squishy and heavy and like something is weighing down on you all the time when it is going on. Then there is the energizer bunny feeling, get that one to. What I call the ricochet rabbit. Bouncing here and there and everywhere and you can't say why it happens only that it happened and your suddenly off and running like somebody suddenly flipped a switch and released a spring. Both drive my wife nuts. But with both of them for me its a hard crash and burn when they run their course.

I was a child when I went, so my mindset and worldview was quite infantile at that point despite my ongoing, daily interactions with spirits. Such is the case when you're a teenager, so while I kind of chuckle at myself in hindsight, stupidity and a lack of awareness comes with the territory.


Oh the joy of youth and stupidity. In my case I sometimes wonder how I survived

I can relate. Some stores and locales can be deeply unpleasant for me, but I've learned to work with it as both a skillset and as a means of connecting more deeply with others in a cityscape. Living in places like northern California and Phoenix, Arizona pretty much forced me to get over my limitations on that front.

There are times where I'll go into the forest to unwind and connect differently, but I find that I have less issues now that I've learned how to limit these connections where necessary/


One of the advantages or disadvantages of getting older is less tolerance for it I think. I put up with it in my youth but now my tolerance and frustration levels makes it more difficult. Well that and the injuries to my back and spine make me less able to tolerate it I suppose.


True that. I had one such instance last weekend, as I connected with a being at a restaurant. It was like this entity was trying to put on a show as though it were a deity when in fact it had just cobbled together the images and armaments assocated with the decor. Struck me as a house spirit who was just trying really hard to bring business in despite being stuck in a place that was not at all its normal habitat.


Sometimes I see stuff like that am I am reminded of the old stories of the brownies and gremlins I think it is. They start out as Brownies who are helpful and friendly but after a bit people forget who and what they are and as they are being forgotten they turn into gremlins. Yet if someone notices them and recognizes them for who and what they are they slowly overtime regain their old form and purpose. It helps them remember who and what they were and are supposed to be.

I wonder at times if that is what is going on with some of the deformed spirits I've encountered in some of these places. Not only have the people forgotten who and what they are but the spirits have also forgotten.


I concur. There are many kinds of landveittir, and they are not always hugely present and assuming. Sometimes, they feel more like a beating heart present in the land. They're there, but they're not hugely attentive until you do something to wake them up. When that happens, things can get a little wild.


Yep, they sort of keep the low key things working until you upset the balance. yet once disturbed they can cause all sorts of issues.

There's an entity like that about 40 minutes from my house, and it seems to slumber deep within the earth. He's present, but really only active at the start of summer, and after that he tends to hibernate until someone does something "big" enough to wake him. He's not unfriendly, but he's essentially a Thurse - he's just a massive elemental being who doesn't much get along with humans.


I'm not familiar with the term "Thurse".
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monsnoleedra
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Re: Hekate & Her Mysteries

Post#45 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:50 pm

Got my curiosity up about Thurse so had to go look it up.

Figure your using it in it's Giant definition most likely. Though it has a lessor definition of "goblin / Kobold / Elf" when it has more of a Nordic (Norwegian) influence. Both of those usages would fit with the earthly type of land daemon / land fae type creature.

Ironically, and this would fit with Hekate, there seems to be a usage where it is used to represent a gigantic Spectre or Apparition. Though that sort of interesting as sort of an aside thought.
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Re: Hekate & Her Mysteries

Post#46 » Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:13 pm

monsnoleedra wrote:Though I'd pull this up here to the top. This is in reference to shamanic death and such.

I once inquired if there was anything worse than death and got an answer to that actually. As I stated elsewhere I had died in my youth and had vague memories of it and "Dream" memories of it. Yet I also had what you might say are presumptions about it as well that I had acquired over time.

Well Hekate granted my wish of seeing what was worse. It's a state of not being dead but not being alive either. Yet your in a place within your body (sort of) where nothing basically registers as being working. Your hovering just before the barrier or veil and you have no contact with the outside world or the spirit world. There are no ancestors to welcome you or guide you into the afterlife or spirit realm. There are no connections to your inner mind, no input from your external body and what thoughts you do have are not really reflections of your current existence or experiences. It's not even a true sense of limbo for you are but your not. It's not life but it's not death, it doesn't even meet the idea of the void. What's bad is none of that is even a good description of what it was like.

As a Shamanic Death you know the Veil and what is behind you and have a connection to the crossing. Even in death you have a connection to the ancestor's and the process. In what Hekate showed me you have nothing. Even the restless dead are closer to their entrapment and suffering so still have something.

When I watched the Disney movie COCO it showed the dead evaporating once the lasting living person had forgotten about them. It sent a shudder down my spine, it sort of pushed my memory back into that place. The only thing is it's to be forgotten in your own body and mind but your still in some sort of living like body that for all intent and purpose is dead to you and everyone else.


Thank you for sharing that with me here, Monsnoleedra. I can see why that would provide a stark contrast, as it reminds me of what I experienced when looking at the world through the perceptions of an individual in a coma. What they experienced was so very much like that, with interspersed dream states taking over.

It was a substantially negative experience to be sure, as that's an experience that renders us dead but not.

I've not watched COCO, however. I've had it on my watch list for quite a while now and I'm guessing that I'd come to understand this more readily if I watch it. Something to look forward to later, to be sure.

This touches some on the idea of memory as it relates to the lives of those who came before. We're often only alive, insofar as the world is concerned, when there's someone to tell our tales. Its part of the role one plays as a shaman or teacher, and that's sacred for a reason.

Switching gears slightly, in the vein of the this half-life you've talked about here, Hekate showed me something similar yet different not too long ago. It was in reference to her and I talking about necromancy insofar as its process and how that is put to use, as I was curious about freeing the dead from their slumber when that was a more necessary aspect of their salvation and growth.

As backstory, I've long been aware that reincarnation's a thing because I grew up with that awareness, but I became really troubled by the understanding that not everyone goes through that process because they become "stuck". Their souls are still terrestrially bound, but not animate in the same sense, so they're essentially stuck to their corpse and exist in a half-present slumbering state separate from the actual experience of the otherworlds and the coming-back that occurs otherwise.

I wanted to know how I could help those spirits to move on and forward with their incarnations, as its typically what I've seen occur with those who have seen War and its horrors and like brutality. First, she showed me what they experienced after death, what brought them there (and it was a like state). Only later did Hekate show me how to wake and roust them as a means of getting them to move forward and onward, but the experience of seeing life/death/the-in-between as I did struck me as being somewhat horrifying.

Logical, in its way, but it seems even the in-between has its prices and roads to be traveled. Gives a certain credence to the idea of placing coins on the eyes of the dead, at any rate, as it is those who leave here with burdened souls that often need the most help in making the traversal.

I liked that. Very truthful about not really seeing the truth without looking at it from multiple angles.


That was my take on it too, as sometimes you truly cannot begin to understand the full picture without taking a wide-angle view. That's rather often the case, so when a spirit says something unintelligible, it can often be an indication that we simply can't yet understand it because we haven't seen things from their side of the mirror.

In relation, asking a spirit to show us their reality can often make a substantial difference in our worldview, as their lack of flesh allows them a greater neuroplasticity than we can achieve in our lives.

Sometimes, this understanding we derive is disturbing, and other times its incredibly uplifting. Such is in line with your experiences that you've shared here and what I've seen in my own discoveries.

I may have to look more into the Hindu - Tibetan practices. I have only a passing knowledge of them. Have more knowledge of the Draconic lore of the Orient than anything I think as I've always been intrigued with them since I was little.


Its worth it if you want to understand more readily some of the interconnections between what we do in the West today and where those practices came from. Proto-Indo European magical & spiritual practices had a remarkable impact on what we see and do today, affecting everything from conjuration-focused magic to afterlife practices. We often see them as being disconnected and foreign, but its where most of our modern magical practices come from.

I've noticed that delving into it further has brought my practices alive, as they're conceptually distinct from what we're taught in the Western world.

I think when it comes to Hekate that is very much a true statement. She is a constant evaluation / re-evaluation of perspective, concepts and history. In that it's like working with an alchemical formula and the mixture is always changing to produce both new products and refining old ones.


Brilliantly put! That's exactly it, as this evaluation/reevaluation aspect to practices with her strike me as being an act through which we peel back the layers of reality and more adequately begin to understand the Whole. The basics are the basics for a reason, but even those basics have multiple components to them that are important.

Its easy to lose that awareness in some practices. With Hekate, that's essentially "not allowed" if one wants to retain any sort of connection to her.

I wonder if there is a differing concept of blade and blood lore influencing things based upon our particular callings? Figure I am retired military and more of that influence. Even within the Shamanic circles I would fall under more of a Warrior Shamanic influence than a healer influence.

During my time in the service I tended to be called more by Sekor and one I simply called the Huntsman while Hekate and Artemis stepped back some. The Huntsman was more like a Herne the Hunter type figure in appearance, though at times I wondered if he might not be something else.


Probably. In my local group, I am the Weyland. I am not a smith, but part of my skillset revolves around being able to bring the essence of a blade out so that it can be worked with. That is not, however, separate from working as a warrior or a healer or a shaman, to me, as they're all integral parts of what a knife can be called to do. A blade can kill or it can extract that which would otherwise kill you.

Knives are ensouled just as any other object, and they have their own personality. Some are bloodthirsty, while others are simply dedicated and studious in their nature, being more interested in measuring twice and cutting once. Others still are impetuous and troubled, needing a steady hand and appropriate treatment in order to be tamed and put to a more beneficial purpose.

So if these tools can be changed in how they work in our hands, it stands to reason that our understanding, too, may change. Cranky blades often just need a good sharpening and a coat of oil to be tamed.

There are exceptions, of course, but I suspect that the connection between the Swords of Tarot and the mind is not accidental or incidental.

Those are good examples. I think some of the Arthurian tales also make some good examples of noble or cursed swords and how they aided or hindered their users. Thing with the long swords though is many times it seems the sword is noble or cursed due due to the actions of it's owner more so than the make of the sword itself.


Indeed true, and this is an extension of what I've experienced as an experience sharpener. Our intention works its way into the blade, and while some pieces are ensouled with harmful aspects, more often than not, with modern blades its up to us to determine what the focus is.

This, I suspect, has much to do with how they're made now. Rarely are even forged knives actively worked by a smith these days. My pieces that were made by a craftsman inherited a piece of the craftsman...sometimes literally.

Runes were one of those things I never really could get the hang of. I used the type made of stone and used the type made of wood. Did the blooding thing with both sets to bring them to life and make them mine or align them to me. But just never could get a feel for them. Always had a sense of making a set out of Holly but never followed through on that which might have been the issue though.


Could be. My wife has the same issue, and just can't quite seem to get the hang of them in the same way. She can read them, but her understanding of them doesn't "last" in any real way. Where I can't get them out of my head, she has trouble making the knowledge around them stick.

I got involved a few times, a couple by accident. One I stepped into it feet first and was up to my neck before I realized what I had done.

Had one where a neighbor had asked us to clear cut some land and we could keep the wood for fire wood. Had done all the offerings and thank you and such. Though it was all set to go. Had been cutting for a bit when I came to this younger Oak and was cutting it down. Got wracked across the eyes by a branch and cut all over my arms and such. Heard all sorts of noise and such in the woods and higher up on the mountain. Got the message I wasn't supposed to be the one cutting in the area anymore. My son and his friends finished clearing the area. Once I stopped all the noise and commotion stopped.


Oops. Good that you got that memo and avoided serious injury, as there are indeed times where spirits have been known to turn a blade against its wielder too. I've seen axes bounce off of trees when they weren't welcome, and it had naught to do with sharpness.

Yeah I try not to single out any particular spirit either. About the only time I single one out is if it's for a particular spring or something like that.


Same. Its usually pretty obvious when that is called for.

With those I consider which type of spirits I am working with or who I am aiming things towards. If they are avian for instance I place them high, if land then upon the land for instance. But generic offerings such as tobacco then I just spread those out or leave them as a sacred site.


We share that tendency too! Even generic offerings have a kind of placement to them. For instance, when I'm offering beer to the spirits of the land, I don't just pour the booze out in the dirt. Instead, I let it flow down a tree trunk or nearby wall as a means of letting all access it according to their placement.

When I was told to start doing this, I thought it was the most ridiculous thing I'd ever heard. Now, I think my prior self a fool for not realizing just how obvious & considerate such a change would be.

That gets sort of interesting at times. You have some older spirits of place that are what I call sleepers in that they rest for long periods of time and then wake up for perhaps days or longer. Then you have the wanders, They to are ancient but they wander. They are like the apex predator who has a range of hundreds of miles and may only return to an area every 12 months or so. But for the old spirit that turns into decades or longer, so the younger spirits forget or only have tales of them.

Where I used to live we had one that came around about every ten to twelve years was it's cycle. It showed up when we first moved in and it showed up again about 11 years later. Yet I ran into it in another part of the forest about 30 miles away from where I lived once when I was on my way to work and had stopped and just wandered into the woods. An old thing it was, you smelt it and felt it when it was near. Can't be sure but I think I encountered it twice where I was stationed at during my last assignment in the military. I had to go out on rounds which meant I would be walking the compound at night, which was in the mountains. I retired from that place so stayed in the same general area so not unrealistic it could be the same entity. Figure I've lived in this general area since 1996 and I've probably encountered it 12 times at various locations around its

Anyway it was funny when it would come into the area behind our house. You'd hear other animals howling like they were king of the mountain. Then it would let out a howl or something and they'd all go silent, you could hear a pin drop after that. Same with the energy in the area, one day one charge then it's energy would move in and the whole place would change. It wasn't just that you had the old Spirit move into the area but you had the animals that moved with it come in as well. basicalyl the king / queen and its court.


That's an astute observation as well. I've run into beings like the Wanderers more than once, and its one of the reasons for my chosen name here. Entities of this kind tend to move on by after leaving their mark, and then they come back 'round after a time to see what's come of their handiwork. When they do, if an upstart has taken up residence, it doesn't generally end well for them.

Their ranges range rather wildly, too, so one can never really be certain when they'll show up. Sometimes they do so of their own volition and there are times at which an action of some kind will generate attention enough for these wandering entities to make their way back.

I had such an experience when living at an apartment complex in Phoenix, Arizona. All was peaceful when I checked the locale out and all looked good. I moved in and started doing my work, and this heavy, massive being came right "home" to see who the hel had just moved in to his old abode. I was not well received, as my efforts had drawn some serious attention.

I was, however, able to interact with this being and show it what I was doing after a few weeks, and it essentially left the area in my care until he came back some eight months later. Apparently, I passed the test, as I was met with a period of substantial increase immediately following this second visit.

Heard the howls too, though this was from more manifest beings at that point. In southern Arizona, around Mt. Lemmon, there's a lot of untamed desert that intersects with the local biped population. We would get massive Javelinas (boar-like peccaries), Mexican Wolves, coyotes, mountain lions, Great Horned Owls, bats, scorpions, and so forth.

It wasn't uncommon to hear coyotes howling at night, but as soon as the wolves started up, you wouldn't hear a peep from the coyotes for a good couple of hours. There was a pretty clear understanding that while there were more coyotes, the Mexican Wolves were far less forgiving or friendly in nature.

Pin drops indeed, as rather loud evenings would become silent. In relation, it was always pretty easy to tell when the owls were coming around, as very little wanted to make much in the way of noise when they were present.

Yeah I'd still be the weird kid as well


This surprises me not at all. :lol:

That's what I call the water weight feeling. All squishy and heavy and like something is weighing down on you all the time when it is going on. Then there is the energizer bunny feeling, get that one to. What I call the ricochet rabbit. Bouncing here and there and everywhere and you can't say why it happens only that it happened and your suddenly off and running like somebody suddenly flipped a switch and released a spring. Both drive my wife nuts. But with both of them for me its a hard crash and burn when they run their course.


"Ricochet Rabbit"....oh dear, you get that mode too. Yeahhh, I can relate. It seems there's one or the other present at any given time, and when the zoomie-mode kicks in, there's no calm to be seen until that burst of energy has run its course.

Oh the joy of youth and stupidity. In my case I sometimes wonder how I survived


I know, right? Sheesh...there are times where I wonder just how I got through the preponderance of stupid that I got up to in those days.

One of the advantages or disadvantages of getting older is less tolerance for it I think. I put up with it in my youth but now my tolerance and frustration levels makes it more difficult. Well that and the injuries to my back and spine make me less able to tolerate it I suppose.


That's logical. From what conversations I've had on the subject, there's a certain crotchetiness that kicks in after a time. Its a bit like the difference between more traditionally-minded witches/shamans/sorcerers/etc and new-age lightworkers - there's a certain lack of a tolerance after a time.

Sometimes I see stuff like that am I am reminded of the old stories of the brownies and gremlins I think it is. They start out as Brownies who are helpful and friendly but after a bit people forget who and what they are and as they are being forgotten they turn into gremlins. Yet if someone notices them and recognizes them for who and what they are they slowly overtime regain their old form and purpose. It helps them remember who and what they were and are supposed to be.


I've noticed the same. Its almost as though these once hospitable beings have simply tried to respond to troubling circumstances by adapting to them, and that adaptation is not always kind.

For instance, there's a Lebanese restaurant in town that has a Jinn for a house spirit. He's pretty friendly for the most part, but hates crosses. He goes from being really pleasant and kind to "how dare you bring this into my house?!" in half a second, and I've noticed from observation that it seems to be a learned response based on how poorly some Westerners treat the staff.

Its an understandable response, too, so every time I go I leave some food behind as a "thank you" to him for being hospitable and kind to someone who looks pretty similar to those who have upset him so deeply in the past. Its not a grandiose gesture by any means, but its made an impact.

I wonder at times if that is what is going on with some of the deformed spirits I've encountered in some of these places. Not only have the people forgotten who and what they are but the spirits have also forgotten.


I suspect you're onto something there, as at times spirits have to be reminded of what they were before [x] trauma happened to them. I imagine it has some to do with something we experience too: when we're programmed by adverse circumstances to behave badly, we lose sight of what we were and become something else.

War changes us, so why wouldn't such troubles do the same to spirits?

Yep, they sort of keep the low key things working until you upset the balance. yet once disturbed they can cause all sorts of issues.


Indeed, and tech exists for both placating these spirits and revving them up. A well-aimed curse can rouse spirits of place to do some seriously destructive shit.

I'm not familiar with the term "Thurse".


"Thursar" is a Norse word used to describe a giant, typically elemental in nature. They're large beings that tend to move slowly and represent simple, base forces within the Universe. They are often associated with things like ice, frost, fire, water, boulders, and so forth.

For instance, a Hrimthurse is essentially a giant land spirit made of black ice, and their effects are nigh always destructive. This fits with your research:

monsnoleedra wrote:Got my curiosity up about Thurse so had to go look it up.

Figure your using it in it's Giant definition most likely. Though it has a lessor definition of "goblin / Kobold / Elf" when it has more of a Nordic (Norwegian) influence. Both of those usages would fit with the earthly type of land daemon / land fae type creature.

Ironically, and this would fit with Hekate, there seems to be a usage where it is used to represent a gigantic Spectre or Apparition. Though that sort of interesting as sort of an aside thought.


It would indeed fit with her, as she has a certain primal elemental nature to her, and her manifestations can be quite substantial in nature.

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Re: Hekate & Her Mysteries

Post#47 » Mon May 06, 2019 11:44 am

Wanderer wrote: Thank you for sharing that with me here, Monsnoleedra. I can see why that would provide a stark contrast, as it reminds me of what I experienced when looking at the world through the perceptions of an individual in a coma. What they experienced was so very much like that, with interspersed dream states taking over.

It was a substantially negative experience to be sure, as that's an experience that renders us dead but not.


I had never though about being in a coma. I suppose because so many things I've read have had people in a coma responding on some level to outside influences. You read about people responding to loved ones talking to them via heart rates going up on monitors for instance. So while they are in a coma there is still a connection to the outside world. I suppose it depends upon the type of coma and how deep they are in it.

I've not watched COCO, however. I've had it on my watch list for quite a while now and I'm guessing that I'd come to understand this more readily if I watch it. Something to look forward to later, to be sure.


It's not a bad movie and was actually pretty well done.

This touches some on the idea of memory as it relates to the lives of those who came before. We're often only alive, insofar as the world is concerned, when there's someone to tell our tales. Its part of the role one plays as a shaman or teacher, and that's sacred for a reason.


Yep, figure on average we only live for about 3 generations of memory then we are gone. After that we sort of become stories or tales more than actual memories. The exception to that rule is when a person becomes either history or legend trapped via tale. Then do they really continue as a real person or do they continue as something else?

Switching gears slightly, in the vein of the this half-life you've talked about here, Hekate showed me something similar yet different not too long ago. It was in reference to her and I talking about necromancy insofar as its process and how that is put to use, as I was curious about freeing the dead from their slumber when that was a more necessary aspect of their salvation and growth.

As backstory, I've long been aware that reincarnation's a thing because I grew up with that awareness, but I became really troubled by the understanding that not everyone goes through that process because they become "stuck". Their souls are still terrestrially bound, but not animate in the same sense, so they're essentially stuck to their corpse and exist in a half-present slumbering state separate from the actual experience of the otherworlds and the coming-back that occurs otherwise.

I wanted to know how I could help those spirits to move on and forward with their incarnations, as its typically what I've seen occur with those who have seen War and its horrors and like brutality. First, she showed me what they experienced after death, what brought them there (and it was a like state). Only later did Hekate show me how to wake and roust them as a means of getting them to move forward and onward, but the experience of seeing life/death/the-in-between as I did struck me as being somewhat horrifying.

Logical, in its way, but it seems even the in-between has its prices and roads to be traveled. Gives a certain credence to the idea of placing coins on the eyes of the dead, at any rate, as it is those who leave here with burdened souls that often need the most help in making the traversal.


Not sure I ever had a desire to wake the sleepers to be honest. In part I suppose because never sure just when it is their time to leave the remains and return to be reborn. While they lay in the ground and sleep they know no pain or longing and their spirit is at peace. Yes many of them lie upon battle fields of one sort of another where they fell, often bodies torn apart in later wars. Yet they also lie buried among their brothers who fell and are buried with them and often entombed with them. The ground made sacred with both their sacrifice and blood. Most times people and time forgetting about which side they served with when it comes to their burial sites or battlefields.

I think the ones that have the hardest times are the desecrated bodies, regardless of which side they were from. We often think of desecration being purposely done but other times I think we forget that it can be due to sheer volume of dead or fear done on the battlefield from other things. Things such as during the American Civil War we know there were area's were wounded were burned alive from both sides because the battle ground ignited with fire. To weak from wounds they perished that way, Northerner and Southerner side by side. At a few places we know of rumors of someone killing the wounded, again killing both Northerners and Southerners, that story has persisted from the Battle of the Wilderness. There have been stories of Native American's having their eyes shot out after they were killed due to the belief they couldn't find their way into the afterlife if their eyes where gone. Heard some equally brutal stories of what was done to the Highland Scots while I was stationed in Scotland. Ghost tell some chilling tales when you sit and listen to them.


That was my take on it too, as sometimes you truly cannot begin to understand the full picture without taking a wide-angle view. That's rather often the case, so when a spirit says something unintelligible, it can often be an indication that we simply can't yet understand it because we haven't seen things from their side of the mirror.

In relation, asking a spirit to show us their reality can often make a substantial difference in our worldview, as their lack of flesh allows them a greater neuroplasticity than we can achieve in our lives.

Sometimes, this understanding we derive is disturbing, and other times its incredibly uplifting. Such is in line with your experiences that you've shared here and what I've seen in my own discoveries.


This is where the term "Spirit" really gets interesting or complicated. Asking something to show us their reality and speak to us can be a mind screw unlike anything we could possibly imagine before it occurred. Yet on the other hand it could be as routine as sitting at a bar and speaking to a person only to discover they are a specter or apparition and vanish a few moments later right before your eyes. Yet while you were talking to them they were as real and as physical as you were. That or a women kneeling before a chapel altar (Glamis Castle, Scotland) then simply fading away, like a mist on an early morning as the sun rises.

I encountered something, I think it was once human, that had a unique language. Never did figure out what it was saying or trying to say. When I meet it was deep in the woods and honestly can't say if it was a land spirit or what as it just sort of melted into the woods. Never threatened me and was only there for what seemed like just a few minutes at most. Almost like a fantasy type dream image or a day dream. Was rather young myself at the time in my teens.


Probably. In my local group, I am the Weyland. I am not a smith, but part of my skillset revolves around being able to bring the essence of a blade out so that it can be worked with. That is not, however, separate from working as a warrior or a healer or a shaman, to me, as they're all integral parts of what a knife can be called to do. A blade can kill or it can extract that which would otherwise kill you.

Knives are ensouled just as any other object, and they have their own personality. Some are bloodthirsty, while others are simply dedicated and studious in their nature, being more interested in measuring twice and cutting once. Others still are impetuous and troubled, needing a steady hand and appropriate treatment in order to be tamed and put to a more beneficial purpose.

So if these tools can be changed in how they work in our hands, it stands to reason that our understanding, too, may change. Cranky blades often just need a good sharpening and a coat of oil to be tamed.

There are exceptions, of course, but I suspect that the connection between the Swords of Tarot and the mind is not accidental or incidental.


I'm definitely not a smithy though I occasionally try to do a bit of cold forging. I'd like to try hot forging but not sure I can take the heat due to my asthma / COPD now. Still it does intrigue me in bringing a blade to life and folding of the metal to form it and give it strength and structural form. Definitely a science behind it both on the chemical side and the actual fire usage side.

All blades have a personality of their own I think if they are hand created. I admit I am not sure about mass produced blades though from an animistic perspective all things can have a "soul" or "Spirit". Some groups say even manmade items can possess a "Manitou" of their own while others say since they are manmade and not natural creations they do not have a "Manitou" or "spirit". Have to admit I go back and forth on this one as at times I've seen things that support it and other times seem to disprove it.

I do think though that a blade may complement or contradict its owner. If it complement's its owner then they have a good relationship. If it contradict's its owner then it is a bad relationship and will be violent and hostile which produces hate and pain.


Oops. Good that you got that memo and avoided serious injury, as there are indeed times where spirits have been known to turn a blade against its wielder too. I've seen axes bounce off of trees when they weren't welcome, and it had naught to do with sharpness.


Yep, got that memo real quick he he he

Usually when it deals with land spirits I tend to get the memo really quickly. Of course the messenger can be quite painful on its delivery.

I recall I was working in our yard and had a sense I wasn't supposed to be exiting our yard into the high field through a certain opening but it wasn't real strong but sort of nagging none the less. So I sort of was ignoring it. Happened to be cutting the grass with a push mower through that very opening and ran over a yellow jackets nest that was in the ground. Next thing I knew I had yellow jackets all up my leg and around me, luck wise they didn't sting me and mostly were just coming out of the nest at the time but I got the message. Do not use that exit into the upper field for the next few days.


We share that tendency too! Even generic offerings have a kind of placement to them. For instance, when I'm offering beer to the spirits of the land, I don't just pour the booze out in the dirt. Instead, I let it flow down a tree trunk or nearby wall as a means of letting all access it according to their placement.

When I was told to start doing this, I thought it was the most ridiculous thing I'd ever heard. Now, I think my prior self a fool for not realizing just how obvious & considerate such a change would be.


I don't tend to pour things directly into the ground unless I'm doing libations to the chthonic realm itself. Other wise I'll pour it out over rocks that are pilled up or let it run down a rail that formed our wooden fence or something similar. That or pour some into my hand and then toss it into the air so some of it is sort of vaporized and carried away on the wind currents and out over the area. But most times i'll go with what ever strikes me at the time as an inspiration when I am actually doing the libations, offerings, etc.


That's an astute observation as well. I've run into beings like the Wanderers more than once, and its one of the reasons for my chosen name here. Entities of this kind tend to move on by after leaving their mark, and then they come back 'round after a time to see what's come of their handiwork. When they do, if an upstart has taken up residence, it doesn't generally end well for them.


These I first called "Wander" because they didn't seem to actually be "Wanderers" when I first discovered them. It just seemed to wander about without a fixed plan or course to it. It seemed to be only one in the area that I could make out from how things were setting up and marking and such. Over time I figured out there were actually a few of them spread out over a significant range and they might actually overlap in a couple of places and their might actually be an alpha type that dominated the range. But the name "Wander" just stuck for me and I never changed it to Wanderers as it seemed as if there was still just a singular primary that dominated the area. Almost like the head of the gang was Wander and the rest were just followers I suppose.

Their ranges range rather wildly, too, so one can never really be certain when they'll show up. Sometimes they do so of their own volition and there are times at which an action of some kind will generate attention enough for these wandering entities to make their way back.


It may sound funny but I wondered if part of this group wasn't actually part of a bi-pedal type group. I know there was a family group that nested up above our home where we lived for 14 years. They migrated twice a year and I could almost tell you when they were in the area and had interacted with them a few times.

I had such an experience when living at an apartment complex in Phoenix, Arizona. All was peaceful when I checked the locale out and all looked good. I moved in and started doing my work, and this heavy, massive being came right "home" to see who the hel had just moved in to his old abode. I was not well received, as my efforts had drawn some serious attention.

I was, however, able to interact with this being and show it what I was doing after a few weeks, and it essentially left the area in my care until he came back some eight months later. Apparently, I passed the test, as I was met with a period of substantial increase immediately following this second visit.

Heard the howls too, though this was from more manifest beings at that point. In southern Arizona, around Mt. Lemmon, there's a lot of untamed desert that intersects with the local biped population. We would get massive Javelinas (boar-like peccaries), Mexican Wolves, coyotes, mountain lions, Great Horned Owls, bats, scorpions, and so forth.

It wasn't uncommon to hear coyotes howling at night, but as soon as the wolves started up, you wouldn't hear a peep from the coyotes for a good couple of hours. There was a pretty clear understanding that while there were more coyotes, the Mexican Wolves were far less forgiving or friendly in nature.

Pin drops indeed, as rather loud evenings would become silent. In relation, it was always pretty easy to tell when the owls were coming around, as very little wanted to make much in the way of noise when they were present.


We didn't have wolves but I know we had a few mountain lions show back up in our area. Passed one early in the morning tracking a deer near the road. Had something else show up once on a semi moonlit night when me and my nephew got called up to the mountain. My nephew didn't want to go up there and I had no choice but to go up there. Something needed our humanscent as an assistance that night against what was coming down the mountain through the rocks. Afterwards my nephew told me he had though I was sort of pulling his leg with some of the stuff I told him after that he changed his mind because of what happened up there.


"Ricochet Rabbit"....oh dear, you get that mode too. Yeahhh, I can relate. It seems there's one or the other present at any given time, and when the zoomie-mode kicks in, there's no calm to be seen until that burst of energy has run its course.


Definitely no stopping it.


That's logical. From what conversations I've had on the subject, there's a certain crotchetiness that kicks in after a time. Its a bit like the difference between more traditionally-minded witches/shamans/sorcerers/etc and new-age lightworkers - there's a certain lack of a tolerance after a time.


That about explains it, a lack of tolerance or patience. Though I think many times it's a lack of "I want it Now" Perhaps a bit greedy and old fashioned thinking but no one handed anything to me, I had to work for it and often go looking for things and prove myself. I refuse to hand it our simply because someone says I owe them or they think they deserve it without really trying.


I've noticed the same. Its almost as though these once hospitable beings have simply tried to respond to troubling circumstances by adapting to them, and that adaptation is not always kind.


Either not kind or in order to protect themselves they become harsher. They trusted and got burnt and now would rather face no one than try again and get hurt again.


I suspect you're onto something there, as at times spirits have to be reminded of what they were before [x] trauma happened to them. I imagine it has some to do with something we experience too: when we're programmed by adverse circumstances to behave badly, we lose sight of what we were and become something else.

War changes us, so why wouldn't such troubles do the same to spirits?


One though that I've wondered about but can't prove is have the daemon's themselves lost touch with the other world? If not lost touch with it experienced difficulty reaching it in some capacity. The reason I think this is there were a few places I've been, usually heavily populated and lots of electrical grids around where I encountered "entities" that were having trouble reaching "home".

People talk about "ET" phone home type things but our lore and mythology is filled with entities whose land lies beside or outside of ours. You might say parallel or adjacent to our own as a dimension time wise or space wise. Yet basically on the same landscape, occupying the same space. If something disrupts their ability to cross those barriers or ability to exist upon both at the same time.

Not talking specifically about the fae but your daemon type entities.

It would indeed fit with her, as she has a certain primal elemental nature to her, and her manifestations can be quite substantial in nature.


That was my though when I saw that definition and how it could apply to Hekate.

Here's something new to add to the discussion. It's the idea of Hekate and torches, specifically the idea of long staffed vs short staffed torches. I keep getting images and thoughts on torches being pushed into my head lately about torches and the differences regarding here rites and the usage of the long shafted torch which is also a fighting torch depicted on many Hellene (Greek) images versus the short shafted torch used in many funeral & Initiation type rites from Roman depictions. Any ideas on this you'd like to present.
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Re: Hekate & Her Mysteries

Post#48 » Fri May 10, 2019 1:41 pm

monsnoleedra wrote:I had never though about being in a coma. I suppose because so many things I've read have had people in a coma responding on some level to outside influences. You read about people responding to loved ones talking to them via heart rates going up on monitors for instance. So while they are in a coma there is still a connection to the outside world. I suppose it depends upon the type of coma and how deep they are in it.


For sure. There's also an element of biological response to emotional stimuli, as while I was in that state, part of what I experienced were along the lines of "tides". If you're dead-but-not and stuck in your head, you're still going to experience fever dreams and the like...that brain activity still occurs, so things that sway the coma patient's emotional state generates a response and "pulls" that person's attentions in one direction or another.

Some comatose states are markedly worse than others, however, and the type of experience I had was quite severe.

It's not a bad movie and was actually pretty well done.


I'll keep that in mind. :)

Yep, figure on average we only live for about 3 generations of memory then we are gone. After that we sort of become stories or tales more than actual memories. The exception to that rule is when a person becomes either history or legend trapped via tale. Then do they really continue as a real person or do they continue as something else?


I have wondered the same, knowing that our memories don't tend to live on for very long, especially in this day and age. However, in some respects, the internet is a graveyard in which long-dead things can be dug up, so it occurs to me that perhaps some aspect of ourselves will live on in the ether of MySpace, Facebook, and Instagram when we're dead and gone.

Its a nonlocalized thing, where a physical graveyard is a physical graveyard. In relation to what else we've discussed around the warping of spirits to survive, I wonder if the same can be said with regard to a community's shared memory of us?

Case in point, I have a friend who passed some years ago. His name is Dan and he was a beautiful, gentle man I came to adore. When he passed, the entire community was impacted by it, and he still lives on in our memories and spiritual practices. He has a social media page, however, and his daughter has access to it. When she uses it to share some of Dan's life, she allows him to live on through a kind of narrative of what was, sharing the things that he would have appreciated.

Its definitely allowed for some permanence on his part, but it is quite different from when he was alive.

Not sure I ever had a desire to wake the sleepers to be honest. In part I suppose because never sure just when it is their time to leave the remains and return to be reborn. While they lay in the ground and sleep they know no pain or longing and their spirit is at peace. Yes many of them lie upon battle fields of one sort of another where they fell, often bodies torn apart in later wars. Yet they also lie buried among their brothers who fell and are buried with them and often entombed with them. The ground made sacred with both their sacrifice and blood. Most times people and time forgetting about which side they served with when it comes to their burial sites or battlefields.

I think the ones that have the hardest times are the desecrated bodies, regardless of which side they were from. We often think of desecration being purposely done but other times I think we forget that it can be due to sheer volume of dead or fear done on the battlefield from other things. Things such as during the American Civil War we know there were area's were wounded were burned alive from both sides because the battle ground ignited with fire. To weak from wounds they perished that way, Northerner and Southerner side by side. At a few places we know of rumors of someone killing the wounded, again killing both Northerners and Southerners, that story has persisted from the Battle of the Wilderness. There have been stories of Native American's having their eyes shot out after they were killed due to the belief they couldn't find their way into the afterlife if their eyes where gone. Heard some equally brutal stories of what was done to the Highland Scots while I was stationed in Scotland. Ghost tell some chilling tales when you sit and listen to them.


That's reasonable. The act of rousting such spirits from the grave is a transgressive act, even if its meant in a beneficial way. They're not always happy to be woken up or forcibly moved on, so they can create poltergeist activity and otherwise respond violently when given cause to do so.

However, there is too this element of the dead becoming connected with the land. When one's blood has seeped into the land and caused additional growth, one essentially becomes interwoven with the energy and pumping lifeblood of the place in question. There are a number of early practices involving the sacrifice of a well-meaning guardian and then essentially burying them under one's doorstep as a means of creating a guardian spirit of that land, so for this to essentially occur through other avenues (war, violent bloodshed) is not all that much of a stretch.

I've heard similar tales, too, of people either desecrating the dead or ensuring that those who were still living on battlefields didn't continue to exist in an earthly form. It would make sense given the grave goods scavengers would come for at the end of a battle. Guns, knives, coin, flasks, jewelry...all of that could be gathered and sold at a time where poverty ran rampant, so for a greedy individual wandering through the battlefield rifling through pockets, murder might not be that much of a stretch.

Its demonstrated through history, too, as Genghis Khan's slaughter of Nishapur was brutal and over the top. Or Atilla the Hun and the terror he struck in Romans (the dude murdered his own brother, so that sets the stage for a whole lot of unsavory behavior). Desperation and the hunger for power, wealth, etc. can motivate people to do pretty shitty things.

This is where the term "Spirit" really gets interesting or complicated. Asking something to show us their reality and speak to us can be a mind screw unlike anything we could possibly imagine before it occurred. Yet on the other hand it could be as routine as sitting at a bar and speaking to a person only to discover they are a specter or apparition and vanish a few moments later right before your eyes. Yet while you were talking to them they were as real and as physical as you were. That or a women kneeling before a chapel altar (Glamis Castle, Scotland) then simply fading away, like a mist on an early morning as the sun rises.

I encountered something, I think it was once human, that had a unique language. Never did figure out what it was saying or trying to say. When I meet it was deep in the woods and honestly can't say if it was a land spirit or what as it just sort of melted into the woods. Never threatened me and was only there for what seemed like just a few minutes at most. Almost like a fantasy type dream image or a day dream. Was rather young myself at the time in my teens.


I readily agree. We use the term "spirit" to encompass a whole hell of a lot, as in the Western world we've lost all sight of the fact that "Spirit" is an encompassment like "Bakemono" or "Yokai" or "Monster", not a description unto itself. The entities that we uncover and bump into can be all manner of shade or ghost or revenant. A Dybbuk isn't the same as another angry child ghost, even if there's a whole lot of similarity between them.

I've encountered like beings that spoke a different language many times over. Sometimes its one of our languages that they speak, other times its a Fae dialect or something native to a specific area, and there are times where spirits have no words at all. Instead, they just share imagery and emotions to get our attention and communicate with us.

There are times where that mode of communication shifts, too, in order to more adequately convey something. For instance, I was working with Ophiel earlier in the week to acheive a number of goals. In so doing, he and I spoke for a good while before he switched into a mode of having me relive the memories of someone else....for context, I knew about the event and the emotions behind it, but had never lived it.

Soon as I did, I understood what needed to be done to rectify the other issues that had transpired as a result thereof. I can't speak to the nature of the experience, as that's ongoing work, but the fact that Ophiel switched gears and showed me someone else's experiences as a means of helping me to understand it more greatly conveyed a greater awareness than words alone could.

While I was in that state, the projection of these memories felt very real, and I experienced what I did as though I was there in the driver's seat. It was a harrowing experience, but it had to be for me to fully grasp the situation and be able to deal with it appropriately.

I've experienced similar things in some of my tantric work, too. One of the beings I was working with caused me to experience sex as though I were a woman, literally flipping my awareness with the woman I was making love to at the time. I could then feel myself pushing her buttons or failing to do so, and in those moments where I was missing the mark, I had a greater understanding of what needed to be done next to ensure that my partner was having a good time.

It was an innocuous enough experience in hindsight, but its made quite the impact on me.

I'm definitely not a smithy though I occasionally try to do a bit of cold forging. I'd like to try hot forging but not sure I can take the heat due to my asthma / COPD now. Still it does intrigue me in bringing a blade to life and folding of the metal to form it and give it strength and structural form. Definitely a science behind it both on the chemical side and the actual fire usage side.

All blades have a personality of their own I think if they are hand created. I admit I am not sure about mass produced blades though from an animistic perspective all things can have a "soul" or "Spirit". Some groups say even manmade items can possess a "Manitou" of their own while others say since they are manmade and not natural creations they do not have a "Manitou" or "spirit". Have to admit I go back and forth on this one as at times I've seen things that support it and other times seem to disprove it.

I do think though that a blade may complement or contradict its owner. If it complement's its owner then they have a good relationship. If it contradict's its owner then it is a bad relationship and will be violent and hostile which produces hate and pain.


Very cool. I've done a bit of cold forging - not enough to call myself a smith, just enough to have a touch of experience with the subject matter. The heat is a bit much for me as well, but the chemical aspects of metallurgy are both a fascination and a minor obsession of mine.

Hand-created blades have a different personality and more of it, in my experience. Sometimes this is good, sometimes its not. One of the handmade pieces I own was made by a maker during his more violent, less relaxed days, and it exudes a willingness to do serious harm. Its a tool, but not in the sense of it being used on cardboard or wood. Rather, its essentially a rib spreader/organ poker in nature, and it retains that energy to an extreme.

As such, it gets brought out only when more violent magical extremes are required.

On the flip side, I have pieces that are not at all interested in doing harm, but instead are more focused on being tools. These pieces have literally bounced off of my flesh without cutting me, so I trust them when working on more delicate projects.

There are times, too, where a blade does not like its owner. A friend of mine once fell asleep with his pocket knife in his bed, only to have it open and stab him in the night. Needless to say, he parted with that one quite quickly afterwards.

Yep, got that memo real quick he he he

Usually when it deals with land spirits I tend to get the memo really quickly. Of course the messenger can be quite painful on its delivery.


True that! Glad you got the message in a hurry, as otherwise that could have been a whole hell of a lot worse.

I recall I was working in our yard and had a sense I wasn't supposed to be exiting our yard into the high field through a certain opening but it wasn't real strong but sort of nagging none the less. So I sort of was ignoring it. Happened to be cutting the grass with a push mower through that very opening and ran over a yellow jackets nest that was in the ground. Next thing I knew I had yellow jackets all up my leg and around me, luck wise they didn't sting me and mostly were just coming out of the nest at the time but I got the message. Do not use that exit into the upper field for the next few days.


Oops. I hope you were able to avoid doing any serious harm to the bees.

I don't tend to pour things directly into the ground unless I'm doing libations to the chthonic realm itself. Other wise I'll pour it out over rocks that are pilled up or let it run down a rail that formed our wooden fence or something similar. That or pour some into my hand and then toss it into the air so some of it is sort of vaporized and carried away on the wind currents and out over the area. But most times i'll go with what ever strikes me at the time as an inspiration when I am actually doing the libations, offerings, etc.


Same here. Pouring it directly into the dirt has started to feel pretty wrong to me unless its done with the express intention of honoring the cthonic beings and only the cthonic beings of place.

These I first called "Wander" because they didn't seem to actually be "Wanderers" when I first discovered them. It just seemed to wander about without a fixed plan or course to it. It seemed to be only one in the area that I could make out from how things were setting up and marking and such. Over time I figured out there were actually a few of them spread out over a significant range and they might actually overlap in a couple of places and their might actually be an alpha type that dominated the range. But the name "Wander" just stuck for me and I never changed it to Wanderers as it seemed as if there was still just a singular primary that dominated the area. Almost like the head of the gang was Wander and the rest were just followers I suppose.


That would make sense, given their nature. The beings that are old enough to wander about unmolested tend to mosey around a bit, checking on things that have long since lost any relevancy to anything but the beings themselves. In some instances, "Wander" describes their programming and response, so its logical.

It may sound funny but I wondered if part of this group wasn't actually part of a bi-pedal type group. I know there was a family group that nested up above our home where we lived for 14 years. They migrated twice a year and I could almost tell you when they were in the area and had interacted with them a few times.


Easily could be. I've seen two, four, and eight-legged versions of beings like this. Some look a whole lot like Leshen, while others are like great bears with too many legs. In some instances, they've been horses or half-horse, half-tree creature-like things. Seen a couple of bird spirits that have acted in a similar fashion, but they're naturally a lot less earth-bound.

We didn't have wolves but I know we had a few mountain lions show back up in our area. Passed one early in the morning tracking a deer near the road. Had something else show up once on a semi moonlit night when me and my nephew got called up to the mountain. My nephew didn't want to go up there and I had no choice but to go up there. Something needed our humanscent as an assistance that night against what was coming down the mountain through the rocks. Afterwards my nephew told me he had though I was sort of pulling his leg with some of the stuff I told him after that he changed his mind because of what happened up there.


Ah, yep. Mountain lions require some serious care when hiking around, given their ambush-tactics. When I was walking my dogs out in the Catalinas, we got into the pattern of turning around and looking behind every few minutes.

Worked well for both showing the spirits of the land that we knew what we were doing & allowed us to stay safe in the process.

Seems, too, that your own experiences of scenting the land became sacred unto itself. I've experienced similar things where I've been called out to a place purely because the act of making that pilgrimage was magical unto itself.

That about explains it, a lack of tolerance or patience. Though I think many times it's a lack of "I want it Now" Perhaps a bit greedy and old fashioned thinking but no one handed anything to me, I had to work for it and often go looking for things and prove myself. I refuse to hand it our simply because someone says I owe them or they think they deserve it without really trying.


Exactly. So much of witchcraft and its process revolves around learning to ask the right questions, as if you can conceive of a question, you've got the basis for understanding the answer. Without that, however, what's said isn't going to make much sense because our perceptions change wildly as a result of experience.

This contributes to why I don't do a whole lot of shortcutting for people where spiritual development is concerned. In the times I've done that kind of work and opened people up to spirits and the ability to connect with/perceive them, its never ended well if these individuals didn't have the basis of understanding necessary to interact with them safely.

Everyone wants to be special, but few want to do the work to be special or useful. As such, a lot of the older beings tend to be a lot less patient with younglings. This relates itself to Hekate, too, as while she's willing to teach from afar, she won't suffer idiots. Old Horny is the same way.

Either not kind or in order to protect themselves they become harsher. They trusted and got burnt and now would rather face no one than try again and get hurt again.


Once bitten, twice shy.

One though that I've wondered about but can't prove is have the daemon's themselves lost touch with the other world? If not lost touch with it experienced difficulty reaching it in some capacity. The reason I think this is there were a few places I've been, usually heavily populated and lots of electrical grids around where I encountered "entities" that were having trouble reaching "home".

People talk about "ET" phone home type things but our lore and mythology is filled with entities whose land lies beside or outside of ours. You might say parallel or adjacent to our own as a dimension time wise or space wise. Yet basically on the same landscape, occupying the same space. If something disrupts their ability to cross those barriers or ability to exist upon both at the same time.

Not talking specifically about the fae but your daemon type entities.


I've noticed the same and wondered about it, and this relates itself some to a vision Hekate shared with me recently. Can't go into all of the detail around that here, so I'll speak vaguely and focus on the parts that can be shared.

The spirit world seems to exist in layers just as ours does, and the layer in which one belongs, for want of a better term, is a matter of harmonic resonance. As such, when spirits become too accustomed to our frequency, they have trouble getting back. The same can be said for human beings who venture too far without being grounded in this reality, so I've seen points where parts of a person have been spirited away to other areas of the spirit world, and that often causes illnesses and pain.

For this to occur within spirits is only logical, and we exist in a world where there's plenty out there that keeps them from moving on or otherwise returning to whatever state they existed in before our technologies made a dent. Conversely, there are things we cannot access due to what's present in our atmosphere, so there are times in which sacred spaces are sacred purely because our BS doesn't pollute them.

That was my though when I saw that definition and how it could apply to Hekate.

Here's something new to add to the discussion. It's the idea of Hekate and torches, specifically the idea of long staffed vs short staffed torches. I keep getting images and thoughts on torches being pushed into my head lately about torches and the differences regarding here rites and the usage of the long shafted torch which is also a fighting torch depicted on many Hellene (Greek) images versus the short shafted torch used in many funeral & Initiation type rites from Roman depictions. Any ideas on this you'd like to present.


Oh, good thought!

Thinking this through, a handheld torch is something that you can take with you. Its an item that you'd light at the hearth or shared fire that's often kept going before walking out into a space you haven't claimed. Its more useful for walking into the unknown, and thus more useful for lighting paths others haven't tread upon.

Its fuel source is naturally quite limited, so there's only so far you can go before you have to turn around and go back whence you've come from.

A standing torch, however, is a means of claiming space. Its placed into the earth and then lit as a means of grabbing ahold of an area for as long as the torch's source of fuel exists, and thus is more suitable to locales that you intend to stay in for a while. As that torch burns down, one's hold on the place would naturally decline and fade as the fire does.

By extension, a fire pit is the most solid means of claiming space for a lengthier period of time, as its a receptacle for that which creates fire. The fuel becomes a means of tending what has been made present, but by extension there's no mobility to be had.

It seems to me that the more mobile one becomes with their flame, the less we actually leave behind in that space. That equates itself with less long-term impact, so the handheld torch is a "just visiting!" response while a fire pit is a means of saying "this is mine now!"

Do you have a similar thought process here? I'd be most interested to hear about this, as it feels rather significant. Now, I'm contemplating how best to actually apply this, as its not something I'd thought all that much about till now.

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