talerman wrote:I think the one who ought to write a book about Hekate is you, Monsnoleedra.
Bumper wrote:Have you found anything in your readings that confirm an influence of Vedic teachings, specifically Kali, on Hekate's attributions?
Chrysophylax wrote:The Greeks ended up knowing that there was a whole world waiting over there, absolutely full of everything desirable, populated by a well-armed multitude, and without much of a way to get there again. Having no concept of those things in their native context, they made them Greek characters and deities, and so we have Hecate instead of Kali.
monsnoleedra wrote:I think it's there but I think it's hidden. But I also think people focus upon Kali and forget that Kali is paired with Durga so tend to ignore the complexity of that relationship and how it influences things.
Kali couldn't truly be brought back without bringing Durga back to keep the balance that the mythology and belief system holds for both of them. Figure the most told story about Kali is she springs forth from Durga's forehead and strikes down two unbeatable demons. Yet both Durga and Kali are opposite personalities yet both are protector's and destroyers. Both are mother figures and creator's as well. While a second story does suggest Kali having a blood lust and requires Shiva falling to the ground to break it by having her step upon him, it's not referenced as much from what I've read. Not to say it's not portrayed more in statuary though.
I personally think you find that the darker traits of Kali get placed upon Hekate while the traits of Durga get placed upon Persephone / Demeter. Yet all three get tied together via the Rape of Persephone mythos, the Eleusinian Mysteries, The wanderings of Demeter and the withering of the crops / barren earth mythos,
Yet Durga is also conflated in one other place. That is with Artemis. It is with Artemis that Durga is perhaps really placed as the opposite of Hekate. Yet it is not the Olympian Artemis (prepubescent) but closer to the Ephesian or Taurian Artemis who is more of an adult woman and associated with more weapons than just the bow and arrow.
I personally believe you see changes to the mythos of Persephone, Demeter and Artemis about the same general time frames as well.
With regard to the theory presented by Chrysophylax and the Argonautica story it makes sense. If not directly then through indirect contact. Figure the story of Medea alone incorporates Hyperboria where ever that might have been and the Chariot of Helios being brought to her. Whether it was by Apollo or Artemis depending upon storyteller really doesn't matter. It suggests contact with lands far away.
Bumper wrote: I hadn't considered it reached as far as the Rape of Persephone myth, but now you mention it I can absolutely see it. I will have to go back and read it again in this context.
And I agree, Kali is most definitely a form of Durga, and working with her you find that quite apparent. And a lot of her ferocity in popular imagery is metaphor for a deeper learnings, the necklace of heads being the sanskrit letters, the head she holds being the ego etc and machete the brutally effective force for change she brings, but that is an initial whack. For my UPG, Kali'ka has been her 'force for change' form, which transitioned to Kali Ma in mantra (on her instruction) as that initial desruptive force levelled out. Kali Ma for me has been as close to the essence of Durga as you can get without actually conjuring Durga directly.
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