Strophalos of Hecaté or Hekate's Wheel

Syncretic Egyptian / Graeco-Roman magic from the collection of texts known as the Papyri Graecae Magicae.
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Re: Strophalos of Hecaté or Hekate's Wheel

Post#31 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:07 pm

Here's a short video of a Hekate's Wheel that has been reproduced as an actual wind chime type set-up. It's not very animated due to the heavy metal that was used and I think due to the way it is strung together. But it does give some hint to what the thing might be like if it was actually strung together and hung as a wind chime or active parts. personally as I observed the short video I think the person would have done better if the individual parts would have been crafted from different types of material or different weights to allow the pieces to move better. That and if the individual pieces had been colored differently to contrast the pieces and their movements within the larger whole.

Haven't come across it before but something of interest I might just try to create for my own interest just for observation as an item of interest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8UxbvbfRK4
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Re: Strophalos of Hecaté or Hekate's Wheel

Post#32 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:37 pm

monsnoleedra wrote:I've been holding off responding to this thread as it seemed we were going off topic from the Strophalos in discussion and was wondering if maybe we didn't need to create a new thread again. But then I got to thinking if maybe that wasn't part of the issue when talking about the Straphalos, trying to keep it so narrowed that we were missing the larger influences that impacted upon it.


I concur, monsnoleedra, though I've found myself wondering how much of that is directly caused by Hekate's manifestations and insights within our respective worlds. She's been strongly present for me and pushing me to explore other avenues of magical practice as a means of coming to understand the Strophalos and other mysteries...this seems appropriate given her tendencies as an educator (at least within the context of my world).

Among those understandings has been the importance of light and shadow as an alternating pattern that creates trance states. There seems to be a lot of truth behind that specific tech, but the actual manifestation of that tech doesn't seem to matter quite as much as I initially thought it did.

There's probably some manner of legitimate strophalos out there that we've not stumbled upon or used effectively, and I hope to find it some day so that I can better understand Hekate's mystery around this object. Until such a time, I'm essentially taking the lessons as they come and I am very much enjoying the ongoing dialogue around her appearance and manifestation.

Even now, Hekate seems to largely be discussed only in hushed whispers and in private settings, which seems to be a kind of disservice to her. Speaking plainly about my experiences with her is quite refreshing, and I hope we eventually come back to a point of being able to do that with other deities too. For as much as magic has been a ridiculed point of interest and suspicion, there's a lot going on within those practices.

I imagine, too, that you're onto something when discussing the "why" for Hekate only being discussed in this way:
By the time of the Chaldean's Hekate clearly had two face's in society, that of the Queen of the dead and Witch Craft. Yet she also had the 3 or four headed face of the Chaldean's. Yet even within the Chaldean system there are 2 Hekate's, perhaps what might be seen as a High and a Low Hekate.

That does seem to tie into the idea that gets tied into the changing forms of Fire and Water, but also of the changing notion of Virginity and Purity. But like Artemis it also ties into relationships, not only between people but also between things or conditions or stages / unions of things.


This Janus-faced nature of hers does seem to confuse others quite a bit, too, which speaks to our limited understanding of the multifaceted nature of beings such as she. These entities are not monotaskers, and they are infinitely complex. The older and more manifest they are, the more this holds to be true, but we as a culture seem to have some issues with God the Mother as a concept (speaking from a Western view).

Heavenly Sigils are a pain to be certain. They might work for a given day then not function again until a certain number of years have passed. What's bad is you might not actually realize that if you do not project it far enough out or are not familiar enough with celestial movements to realize it.

Then there are birth sigils for instants that work once but might work later if the conditions set up again but may or may not ever work again.


The more I think on this, the more I wonder by extrapolation if the Strophalos as a concept is a kind of heavenly sigil. I mean, this might sound wild and crazy, but if we're certain that there was once a specific strophalos-concept-in-physical-form, why would this be incapable of changing so long as the base understanding and function of the item remain the same?

A knife is a knife is a knife. They all cut things, but how they do so and the ease with which they do so depends upon any number of factors.

Similar to birth sigils but are more like prophecy sigils or identity sigils. I had one that was a birthmark sigil yet it is not the same as my identity sigil. yet I have one that is a combination of the two.


I've heard of this practice but have little direct experience with it myself. Granted, I've never much liked the idea of paring myself down to a finite concept that can be used as a link to myself.

Riders, Drivers are two that drive me crazy. Being ridden is basically being horsed same concept just different terms. Drivers though I hate. Those are the ones who try to jump in and take short term control and run the show but don't try to possess you. Can get you in trouble though.


I know just what you mean. Its been a long time since I was last -driven-, per se, but being ridden happens quite frequently with the spirits I trust. These are, however, beings that I've known for twenty+ years, however, so I'm less concerned when they do so. That kind of trust desperately needs to be present if we're to allow a being to take complete control, as they're not going to be held responsible for the after-effects. Those after-effects can be profoundly world-shaping in their natures, and this ties in some to the idea of how to integrate the revelations and practices into our practices, as you discussed.

I mean, in a very real way, the things that I've watched be performed with my own two hands have at times been entirely new to me. Weird contraptions, carvings, sigils, oil mixtures, herb blends, and even acts used in rites that I've never seen before have occurred while being ridden, horsed, and driven, and there are points at which I've tried to emulate some of those things.

When I do so, there's power there, but it can at times be something you don't want to replicate because it can be "too much", for want of a better description. They are tools, yes, but most of these things cannot or should not be integrated into regular practice.

Howling to the moon while working a heart with herbs and wire and nails, for instance, is powerful, but that kind of stuff can literally take people out of existence. That's not really the best go-to for most situations.

In some ways it's almost as if it is a puzzle I am meant to witness and in the witnessing of it am meant to be flustered by the realization that I can not realize the manifestation of its perfection. Yes, I will strive to attempt to achieve it as come as close to it in both a material sense and a psychological sense but understand I shall never quite perfect it either.


I know just what you mean. You're not able to replicate it exactly, and there is indeed a fear of not getting it right. Especially when things that come from it are so manifest...these moments create these massive ripples in the Universe, so those had best be correct and well-executed if we want to avoid some serious blowback.

You know it's funny but of all the places Hekate has taken me the cemetery / graveyard is one she's never really had me sit out in. I've sat out in some desolate places, but never a cemetery or graveyard. Well not a human one anyway, been to some non-human ones where there have been quite a few animal bones.


Might be worthwhile, but I'd ask her about it before you do so. It could be that the nature of the application of our respective practices is just different enough that such an "attunement" with thanatoic energies would be a bad idea for you. Hard to say, though, as I can only really be witness to what Hekate does with me along those lines.

I've never sat out in a non-human graveyard, but I have attended them and worked in them.

I keep getting the idea of a musical type instrument at times for this. One of the images that came to me was the Sistern that is a type of devise you see used in Kemetic religions and associeted with Bastet.


Funny that you should mention that, as I got pushed by Hekate to look into Kemetic religious and magical practices recently. Bastet was one of the beings I've been told to seek out, and I've been drawn to the use of a horn in magical practice of late. Its not the same musical instrument, I imagine, but there's a definite aspect of sound being incredibly important.

I can't imagine a horn would go over well with a cat-related worship ceremony, however...loud noises aren't their favorite.

Back to the Strophalos, however, that wind chime is very cool and I could see the pertinence of it. In relation, I'd mentioned light and shadow and how those things are a huge part of the experience we have, and this video's imagery touches upon it well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7ZqZVunCb4

This concept of shadows moving and attaining life is exactly what Hekate INSISTS upon with me when I ask her about this. She insists that I do something to obscure my view of the flame or light source because its that obscuration and the repetition of the movement behind it that is sacred and manifest and pertinent. Without that, there's no magic associated with the Strophalos in her words.

That "warp" and the associated displacement that occurs alongside it is the point, it seems, provided I haven't entirely misunderstood the repeated UPG and visions I've been given in response.

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Re: Strophalos of Hecaté or Hekate's Wheel

Post#33 » Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:14 am

Wanderer wrote: I concur, monsnoleedra, though I've found myself wondering how much of that is directly caused by Hekate's manifestations and insights within our respective worlds. She's been strongly present for me and pushing me to explore other avenues of magical practice as a means of coming to understand the Strophalos and other mysteries...this seems appropriate given her tendencies as an educator (at least within the context of my world).

Among those understandings has been the importance of light and shadow as an alternating pattern that creates trance states. There seems to be a lot of truth behind that specific tech, but the actual manifestation of that tech doesn't seem to matter quite as much as I initially thought it did.


Hekate pushes me to explore other magic's but she also pushes me to explore other conflation's more. It's like the magic's are important in understanding her but the conflation's between her and other goddesses and how those other goddesses have been equally conflated are more important.

Yet in those conflation's I really cross into the idea of light and shadow and alternating patterns and boundaries. Not just physical boundaries but psychological boundaries that separate them but also tie them together. It's like most people are pretty familiar with the Selene - Artemis - Hekate conflation yet not to many delve into the Bastet - Pakhet - Mafdet - Sekhmet conflation which ties Artemis & Hekate together with them. Especially given that Bastet & Pahket are heavily tied to Artemis for instance. Then you have the Luna - Diana - Triformus - Juno conflation with the moon influences. Which for me keeps going back to shadows, light, transitions, movements and rotations.

There's probably some manner of legitimate strophalos out there that we've not stumbled upon or used effectively, and I hope to find it some day so that I can better understand Hekate's mystery around this object. Until such a time, I'm essentially taking the lessons as they come and I am very much enjoying the ongoing dialogue around her appearance and manifestation.


I tend to agree. I think there might even be multiple ones actually.

Even now, Hekate seems to largely be discussed only in hushed whispers and in private settings, which seems to be a kind of disservice to her. Speaking plainly about my experiences with her is quite refreshing, and I hope we eventually come back to a point of being able to do that with other deities too. For as much as magic has been a ridiculed point of interest and suspicion, there's a lot going on within those practices.

I imagine, too, that you're onto something when discussing the "why" for Hekate only being discussed in this way:


Not only hushed and private settings but also lop sided discussions. It often seems to come across as either this or that and the sides never meet. She's either the MMC of the Wicca conviction or this evil dark goddess of the Left Hand Path influence with an occasional ceremonial / Chaldean type persona tossed in. TO scary for some or to loving for others, the foreboding wicked witch of the east or Glenda the good witch of the North.

It's like it surprises me how few people have actually joined in these discussion we've been having on her in any capacity.


This Janus-faced nature of hers does seem to confuse others quite a bit, too, which speaks to our limited understanding of the multifaceted nature of beings such as she. These entities are not monotaskers, and they are infinitely complex. The older and more manifest they are, the more this holds to be true, but we as a culture seem to have some issues with God the Mother as a concept (speaking from a Western view).


I think that Janus faced nature also crosses into the complex nature of the Chaldean cosmos as well. But it also crosses into the Strophalos concept as well, given it is a two faced or two wheeled construct where one wheel exists or functions within another. We assume or presume they turn in accordance with each other but what if they turn opposite to one another or counter to one another? Basically like a Janus-Head where they face opposite to one another or away from each other? Suggesting opposing operations or countering operations.


The more I think on this, the more I wonder by extrapolation if the Strophalos as a concept is a kind of heavenly sigil. I mean, this might sound wild and crazy, but if we're certain that there was once a specific strophalos-concept-in-physical-form, why would this be incapable of changing so long as the base understanding and function of the item remain the same?

A knife is a knife is a knife. They all cut things, but how they do so and the ease with which they do so depends upon any number of factors.


I've always wondered if it wasn't some sort of heavenly sigil or concept. In some ways I've always wondered if it didn't in some capacity connect to the two streams connected to the girdle located about the waist of Hekate. Like a horn of plenty, noting the tip of the stream and the mouth opening showing four points. But it wouldn't be a maze about a core yet the core would denote the body of Hekate around which the streams would be hung or suspended. Depending upon how it is supported you might have rings supporting it as an inner support and outer support. That or a feeder like tube coming into the streams over her shoulder and coming down appearing as a tube from above. Just something I got an image of a few times and reminded me a few times of the idea of her being enveloped by serpents that are not actually serpents.

I know just what you mean. Its been a long time since I was last -driven-, per se, but being ridden happens quite frequently with the spirits I trust. These are, however, beings that I've known for twenty+ years, however, so I'm less concerned when they do so. That kind of trust desperately needs to be present if we're to allow a being to take complete control, as they're not going to be held responsible for the after-effects. Those after-effects can be profoundly world-shaping in their natures, and this ties in some to the idea of how to integrate the revelations and practices into our practices, as you discussed.


Being ridden happens quite a bit I agree. Sometimes it occurs in such an off hand way that it's more like having some one looking over your shoulder and is like a small voice in the back of your head. One thing I noticed for me anyway is that quite often when I have a rider is that I get 3rd eye visions of things that come across almost like I am watching a movie in a theater. Sometimes it will be like I am observing from a 3rd person perspective but other times it's more like a 1st person vantage perspective.

It's interesting because it's not like 3rd eye scrying though it has some of the same imagery affects / effects.

I mean, in a very real way, the things that I've watched be performed with my own two hands have at times been entirely new to me. Weird contraptions, carvings, sigils, oil mixtures, herb blends, and even acts used in rites that I've never seen before have occurred while being ridden, horsed, and driven, and there are points at which I've tried to emulate some of those things.


This one gets interesting as whether it's be due to being ridden or driven what has been revealed in the physical or mental / psyche have been complete processes. On a few situation its involved both processes at the same time so the experience has been experienced in both the physical sense and mental / psyche sense as a duel experience. I recall one instance where it was basically a situation where it ended up being an inbody and out of body tethered experience which was surreal.

When I do so, there's power there, but it can at times be something you don't want to replicate because it can be "too much", for want of a better description. They are tools, yes, but most of these things cannot or should not be integrated into regular practice.


I had those but they are usually more shamanic in nature and many times involved dismemberment of some sort. They often start in dreamtime or journey and continue into the awakened state with your guide as sort of a shadow presence. Yet it's not uncommon to have some sort of physical marks on your body such as rashes, welts, bruses where you were ripped, torn or bitten.

Other times it's more due to shape shifting type things where you come out and retain sensations of body parts that are no longer there such as claws, displaced eyes, wings, talons, body distortions, etc.

I know just what you mean. You're not able to replicate it exactly, and there is indeed a fear of not getting it right. Especially when things that come from it are so manifest...these moments create these massive ripples in the Universe, so those had best be correct and well-executed if we want to avoid some serious blowback.


Sometimes it's like getting a chemical set and you have a success and want to recreate that success but don't recall exactly what you added to get that success. Part of it is ego for you got praise for that moment of success yet you also got a lot of warning because it was blind luck you got that success vice blowing up the lab. So you know the teacher is now starring at you because you showed some skill but is also worried you might be dumb enough to try on your own and kill yourself for not listening to them.

Might be worthwhile, but I'd ask her about it before you do so. It could be that the nature of the application of our respective practices is just different enough that such an "attunement" with thanatoic energies would be a bad idea for you. Hard to say, though, as I can only really be witness to what Hekate does with me along those lines.

I've never sat out in a non-human graveyard, but I have attended them and worked in them.


I asked her once about doing the graveyard / cemetery thing and all I heard / got the impression of was "Are you stupid or something!" Which was strange because like I said I've sat out in non-human grave yards and have done formal crossing over rituals for animal spirits that went over a week in duration. Got called on multiple times to act as a spirit keeper but never asked or even suggest to sit in a graveyard.

The closest I ever did to that was did a projection with a chunk of tombstone and that ended badly. The tombstone was from a man's grave who was murdered and the women didn't tell me that part. Double murder in fact and his body was tossed down a mine shaft but got hung up near the top of the mine shaft and recovered, the other man's was not. You don't want to know what was down in that mine shaft or how many other murder victim's had been tossed down there.

Funny that you should mention that, as I got pushed by Hekate to look into Kemetic religious and magical practices recently. Bastet was one of the beings I've been told to seek out, and I've been drawn to the use of a horn in magical practice of late. Its not the same musical instrument, I imagine, but there's a definite aspect of sound being incredibly important.

I can't imagine a horn would go over well with a cat-related worship ceremony, however...loud noises aren't their favorite.


There's a long stemmed horn that made an interesting sound that I found in some references to both Bastet and Pakhet. Bastet and Pakhet are both strongly connected to Artemis. Bastet via the Upper Nile and Pakhet via the Middle Nile. Both are also associated with Hellene influences into Egypt but at different time frames. Word of advice Pachet is a name confused for Bastet due to a translation error for Ubasti the city of Bast. It has nothing to do with Pakhet which is a Middle Kingdom period goddess from The Spiro De Artemios or Grotto of Artemis near Benni Hassen from the 22nd dynastic period if I recall correctly.



This concept of shadows moving and attaining life is exactly what Hekate INSISTS upon with me when I ask her about this. She insists that I do something to obscure my view of the flame or light source because its that obscuration and the repetition of the movement behind it that is sacred and manifest and pertinent. Without that, there's no magic associated with the Strophalos in her words.


Something I find interesting and just an observation on my part, for me the idea of shadows and movement gets shown a lot in water (mist / fog / rain / water itself) I see movement and flow via the concentration of light / density through the reflection / refraction / difussion of light as it passes through the element of water in its various forms. Water is also a prime element for me from the notion of my birth planet (Neptune) , to my zodiac (Pisces) to my calling (Navy), even to my place of solace (around water), heck even my primary mythological creature is a dragon (water element in oriental lore), Clan is Wolf which water).

You say you must obscure the flame yet your seeing through the flame. Even if it is the reflection or product of the flame via the smoke or consumption. Wonder if that means something.
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Re: Strophalos of Hecaté or Hekate's Wheel

Post#34 » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:19 pm

monsnoleedra wrote:Hekate pushes me to explore other magic's but she also pushes me to explore other conflation's more. It's like the magic's are important in understanding her but the conflation's between her and other goddesses and how those other goddesses have been equally conflated are more important.


I have noticed the same within the context of my work with both Hekate and Ol' Horny, as both are interested in the patterns and overlaps because its in those areas that we find most all truths. Both of them have, in unison and separately, pushed me to understand that most of what we believe we understand about various magical and religious "truths" as they're taught in structured religions are all limited by their individual points of view.

It is where those teachings overlap and come to an agreement that the potent magical understandings and truths are found, as the rest is all essentially window dressing. There's a curious logic to it too, as our shapes are really only in existence on account of the blending that occurs from billions of atoms congregating and shaping us into existence. We are literally the sum of that bleed effect that occurs where the edges meet, and so too should our magical understandings be a reflection on this.

That's what I've been pushed to understand, anyway. The mileage of others may vary.

monsnoleedra wrote:Yet in those conflation's I really cross into the idea of light and shadow and alternating patterns and boundaries. Not just physical boundaries but psychological boundaries that separate them but also tie them together. It's like most people are pretty familiar with the Selene - Artemis - Hekate conflation yet not to many delve into the Bastet - Pakhet - Mafdet - Sekhmet conflation which ties Artemis & Hekate together with them. Especially given that Bastet & Pahket are heavily tied to Artemis for instance. Then you have the Luna - Diana - Triformus - Juno conflation with the moon influences. Which for me keeps going back to shadows, light, transitions, movements and rotations.


Exactly! Many of these beings can be separate yet related while still being distinct entities unto themselves, and they also represent and "channel" specific patterns of energy back into the manifest universe as a part of their existence. In a way, they are Archons of that particular Archetype, and they're a means of getting to know that archetype better just as much as they're individually distinct entities unto themselves.

The same can be said for astrological signs and their manifestation. We're all distinct individuals, but we're also patterned according to how the stars reflect us. If we understand that in a magical sense, then it becomes more intelligible.

That isn't to say that the spirits are meaningless or anything of the kind, as they are anything and everything BUT that. That does not, however, mean that they're not also some manner of expression of basic elemental truths within the Universe.

I tend to agree. I think there might even be multiple ones actually.


I would agree, as I've been hearing the phrase "strophaloi" when I ask her about them. That's a distinct plural, meaning that this too might just be a means of expressing a Divine Truth.

Not only hushed and private settings but also lop sided discussions. It often seems to come across as either this or that and the sides never meet. She's either the MMC of the Wicca conviction or this evil dark goddess of the Left Hand Path influence with an occasional ceremonial / Chaldean type persona tossed in. TO scary for some or to loving for others, the foreboding wicked witch of the east or Glenda the good witch of the North.

It's like it surprises me how few people have actually joined in these discussion we've been having on her in any capacity.


Well stated and I agree. There's something about her that really challenges people and pushes their buttons, same as Ol' Horny. Those that embrace either of them often do so because they're pushed to one fringe or another, and those nearer to the center of their social group are a bit less comfortable with the idea of working with a being that's nearer to the center.

We see this a lot in modern Buddhist and Buddhist-periphary practices, too. People want to work with the Medicine Buddha and Tara-Ma, but they don't want to strive nearer to the aspects of these beings that are less benign in their initial appearance. They seem to forget that the more wrathful-appearing aspects are in fact more active and more reactive, and thus more useful insofar as living within the world.

Its kind of curiously amusing to me, too, as it seems that people are intimidated by a Goddess who has more than one mood, despite that making her more accessible and more relateable. I've always had substantially more difficulty in connecting with those glossed-over beings who are portrayed as being specifically _______. That whitewashing removes the connection and the power, so treating beings like Hekate as legitimate, living deities with likes and dislikes and interests and passions is a far more realistic, useful practice.

I'm hoping, too, that people who read these conversations will pop in more and partake. We were all novices at one point in time or another, and that's often the best time to jump and interact. We don't bite....much. :P

I think that Janus faced nature also crosses into the complex nature of the Chaldean cosmos as well. But it also crosses into the Strophalos concept as well, given it is a two faced or two wheeled construct where one wheel exists or functions within another. We assume or presume they turn in accordance with each other but what if they turn opposite to one another or counter to one another? Basically like a Janus-Head where they face opposite to one another or away from each other? Suggesting opposing operations or countering operations.


And I'm of the mind that the latter idea is actually more correct and ultimately more useful, as everything in the Universe requires some manner of balance unto itself. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, so recognizing that the axiom As Above, So Below applies to ALL things is a huge part of coming to understand the infinite complexity of the known Universe.

We cannot have extreme evil without extreme good, but we also cannot have little evil without little good. If we did, the Universe would have a conniption and seek to rectify this because that's a Base Truth that has to be observed for this existence to continue.

I see this in a Hindotibetan light, too, as Nataraja is said to dance to keep the world turning. If he were to slip and become unbalanced, I imagine we'd be awash in destruction, for its the transition into his next dance that's said to kill us all and destroy the world with it.

Balance is quite literally required for existence, but that too can be a foreign concept.

I've always wondered if it wasn't some sort of heavenly sigil or concept. In some ways I've always wondered if it didn't in some capacity connect to the two streams connected to the girdle located about the waist of Hekate. Like a horn of plenty, noting the tip of the stream and the mouth opening showing four points. But it wouldn't be a maze about a core yet the core would denote the body of Hekate around which the streams would be hung or suspended. Depending upon how it is supported you might have rings supporting it as an inner support and outer support. That or a feeder like tube coming into the streams over her shoulder and coming down appearing as a tube from above. Just something I got an image of a few times and reminded me a few times of the idea of her being enveloped by serpents that are not actually serpents.


Now THAT is really rather interesting, as I've been getting the serpent that's both a serpent and not a serpent mental connection in an ongoing fashion. It has been coming up as a repeated area of discussion and conceptual hold. I'm reminded of the serpent and the egg motif in which the serpent is wrapped about the egg (see the omphalos).

Here again we have that striping factor in which there's an alternation between textures as a means to magical potency, too.

Perhaps it would be worthwhile to meditate on the kaleidoscope function found in this? This is a fascinating concept to me, as just briefly dropping into that mindset has created both inspiration and what I can best term as "soon".

Its like being swept up into the vision, and I found it reflected it onto myself. This might actually be a part of that magic.

Being ridden happens quite a bit I agree. Sometimes it occurs in such an off hand way that it's more like having some one looking over your shoulder and is like a small voice in the back of your head. One thing I noticed for me anyway is that quite often when I have a rider is that I get 3rd eye visions of things that come across almost like I am watching a movie in a theater. Sometimes it will be like I am observing from a 3rd person perspective but other times it's more like a 1st person vantage perspective.

It's interesting because it's not like 3rd eye scrying though it has some of the same imagery affects / effects.


I hadn't considered this idea of getting a vision as an aspect of being ridden, but that does make a lot of sense given the experience and its nature. I've had identical experiences in addition to having beings hop on for the sake of more or less autonomous interactions. Framing each of these interactions as being related to being ridden actually createst he means through which we can more readily cultivate that kind of connection, since it reforms the kind of barriers we choose to create.

This does, too, correlate with something I'd noticed prior: protection work does tend to insulate oneself from such instances of spiritual connection. If protection is focused on keeping that kind of intersonal spiritual interaction from occurring, then visionary experiences, too, would be limited in their scope.

This concept could well be seen as a blending of essence from two beings as a means of achieving growth and spiritual development, as that would make a whole lot of sense in this context. That could well be a part of the mystery of the strophalos, thinking this through.

This one gets interesting as whether it's be due to being ridden or driven what has been revealed in the physical or mental / psyche have been complete processes. On a few situation its involved both processes at the same time so the experience has been experienced in both the physical sense and mental / psyche sense as a duel experience. I recall one instance where it was basically a situation where it ended up being an inbody and out of body tethered experience which was surreal.


I think I follow what you mean, as there have been points where I was essentially hijacked out of myself and then watched the process unfold in an over-the-shoulder fashion. I was still tethered to myself, but I was watching this occur rather than being present as it was occurring. These processes aren't usually lengthy for me, but they are profound and draining.

I had those but they are usually more shamanic in nature and many times involved dismemberment of some sort. They often start in dreamtime or journey and continue into the awakened state with your guide as sort of a shadow presence. Yet it's not uncommon to have some sort of physical marks on your body such as rashes, welts, bruses where you were ripped, torn or bitten.

Other times it's more due to shape shifting type things where you come out and retain sensations of body parts that are no longer there such as claws, displaced eyes, wings, talons, body distortions, etc.


I've experienced this as well. At times, I've found myself with additional appendages or spiritual modifications that have persisted for periods of time. Some have been permanent and haven't gone away, others are mantles that must be assumed, but there are some serious responsibilities associated with playing with those "armaments".

Soreness seems to be a manifest part of the process of experiencing these things and then bringing them back into the real world. I have found that if that soreness and tiredness doesn't persist, then what I experienced stays in the Otherworld rather than coming here.

Sometimes it's like getting a chemical set and you have a success and want to recreate that success but don't recall exactly what you added to get that success. Part of it is ego for you got praise for that moment of success yet you also got a lot of warning because it was blind luck you got that success vice blowing up the lab. So you know the teacher is now starring at you because you showed some skill but is also worried you might be dumb enough to try on your own and kill yourself for not listening to them.


I suspect you are correct, and in those instances sometimes the instructor is the one that caused you to do whatever you did, so the act of determining whether or not you can recreate what they just did using you is a test unto itself. Hekate seems to love that process with me, and I enjoy it equally as it shows me where I am less skilled, less able, and more in need of greater internal change & more instruction.

In this regard, I hold Hekate in a place of utmost respect. She is many things, and an excellent teacher is very much on that list.

I asked her once about doing the graveyard / cemetery thing and all I heard / got the impression of was "Are you stupid or something!" Which was strange because like I said I've sat out in non-human grave yards and have done formal crossing over rituals for animal spirits that went over a week in duration. Got called on multiple times to act as a spirit keeper but never asked or even suggest to sit in a graveyard.

The closest I ever did to that was did a projection with a chunk of tombstone and that ended badly. The tombstone was from a man's grave who was murdered and the women didn't tell me that part. Double murder in fact and his body was tossed down a mine shaft but got hung up near the top of the mine shaft and recovered, the other man's was not. You don't want to know what was down in that mine shaft or how many other murder victim's had been tossed down there.


That is indeed a rather interesting response from her, considering the circumstances and the rather volatile nature of the energy associated with a murdered man's tombstone. Particularly given the circumstances you'd described, though frankly none of this comes as a surprise to me.

I've had similar experiences in working with the angry, dispossessed, wronged dead, and they are definitely crazy in their own right. The places in which such deaths occurred, too, are traumatized by their very nature.

It occurred to me that part of my own necromantic focus and the associated "attunement" might well be from my childhood, as I grew up in an excessively violent place in which a whole lot of death occurred. Often in near proximity to me, so it wasn't uncommon for me to walk around in places where blood had been on the ground just a week prior.

That kind of experience changes you, and not often for the better.

There's a long stemmed horn that made an interesting sound that I found in some references to both Bastet and Pakhet. Bastet and Pakhet are both strongly connected to Artemis. Bastet via the Upper Nile and Pakhet via the Middle Nile. Both are also associated with Hellene influences into Egypt but at different time frames. Word of advice Pachet is a name confused for Bastet due to a translation error for Ubasti the city of Bast. It has nothing to do with Pakhet which is a Middle Kingdom period goddess from The Spiro De Artemios or Grotto of Artemis near Benni Hassen from the 22nd dynastic period if I recall correctly.


Thank you for the direction. My own thought interest in horns used in this way stems from the use of the horn in tantra, as it is a signal for some of the more wrathful, active beings that are called to place. In those instances, its a warhorn that's used as a signal and signpost, and it can be a useful means of calling a space to order. There's something quite primal about that sound, and it has a specific tune to it.

I'll have to research Bastet and Pakhet, as I know a fair bit about the former, little about the latter. The last time I seriously researched the former was many years ago, however, so I'm rusty.

Something I find interesting and just an observation on my part, for me the idea of shadows and movement gets shown a lot in water (mist / fog / rain / water itself) I see movement and flow via the concentration of light / density through the reflection / refraction / difussion of light as it passes through the element of water in its various forms. Water is also a prime element for me from the notion of my birth planet (Neptune) , to my zodiac (Pisces) to my calling (Navy), even to my place of solace (around water), heck even my primary mythological creature is a dragon (water element in oriental lore), Clan is Wolf which water).

You say you must obscure the flame yet your seeing through the flame. Even if it is the reflection or product of the flame via the smoke or consumption. Wonder if that means something.


I expect it does mean something, and perhaps its an allegory for not staring into the sun directly. There is, too, a substantial bit of magic to be had in the observation of a thing through a reflection. For instance, if you have trouble connecting with a sigil for one reason or another, or wish to insulate yourself from its effects, you can do so by looking at its reflection through coffee or tea. The act of doing so creates the reflection of the intended medium but also insulates the flow of energy through the liquid state of the reflection itself.

Its an odd one for me, however, as I have little in the way of water in my chart. I'm a Leo born in the year of the Fire Rabbit. Ascendant sign is Aquarius, Moon's in Gemini, so for me to use water in this respect is nigh antithetical to my own animus. It does, however, work beautifully.

I feel, too, that there's an element to this practice that combines fire and water through the use of forcing light through water as a means of "taming" it. If that works, then I wonder if sunglasses would be another aspect of the same...its a bit weird, but it makes sense.

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monsnoleedra
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Re: Strophalos of Hecaté or Hekate's Wheel

Post#35 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:23 pm

I was reflecting here a bit about whether this thread was still actually pertaining to the strophalos or not. Yet perhaps it's more along the lines of her wheel than we realize for we've certainly rolled across more things and brought more things into the discussion only to move onto other things. Yet each topic has clearly pertained to her domain and been reflective of things beneath her influence and domain. Then like something consumed by a serpent it gets taken in and forms a large knot in its belly and slowly crushed and constricted as it is digested and broken down to be consumed. Yet not only consumed but passed deeper and deeper into the body to be feed upon and digested to receive the nutrients from its consumption.

Wanderer wrote: I have noticed the same within the context of my work with both Hekate and Ol' Horny, as both are interested in the patterns and overlaps because its in those areas that we find most all truths. Both of them have, in unison and separately, pushed me to understand that most of what we believe we understand about various magical and religious "truths" as they're taught in structured religions are all limited by their individual points of view.

It is where those teachings overlap and come to an agreement that the potent magical understandings and truths are found, as the rest is all essentially window dressing. There's a curious logic to it too, as our shapes are really only in existence on account of the blending that occurs from billions of atoms congregating and shaping us into existence. We are literally the sum of that bleed effect that occurs where the edges meet, and so too should our magical understandings be a reflection on this.

That's what I've been pushed to understand, anyway. The mileage of others may vary.


What gets me in trouble at times is I will take the patterns and overlaps and believe I have come to understand some truth and believe I have been given confirmation only to later be told I now need to forget it. It's like it was a truth and it was true for that time frame but it no longer is true now. The thing is the old truth didn't specifically change and I need to keep that truth under that old condition, it's just I need to realize that a new condition also exists so I need to recognize a new truth also exists for the new condition.

The issue though is that I may not always be able to tell correctly tell when the conditions shift from the old condition to the new condition. So that means I also may not be able to tell when the truth shifts from the old truth to the new truth.

I experienced this one with animals where one time the truth of condition A was correct and nothing happened yet under condition B occurred and I got hurt. Yet on the surface there was nothing as an indicator to suggest the conditions had actually been different. Similar things have occurred with some spirits but they were a bit more apparent in physical sensations. Not sure that makes sense but think I'm rambling so will drop this one.


Exactly! Many of these beings can be separate yet related while still being distinct entities unto themselves, and they also represent and "channel" specific patterns of energy back into the manifest universe as a part of their existence. In a way, they are Archons of that particular Archetype, and they're a means of getting to know that archetype better just as much as they're individually distinct entities unto themselves.


Just my personal perspective but I think many times people encounter a deities Avatar or messenger more often than they encounter the deity themselves. But because they encounter the avatar or messenger people start to equate them with being archetypes for certain energy streams or concepts. In part, again just my opinion, I think the messengers or avatars are more willing to work together than the actual divinities at times. Perhaps even being able to utilize the "energy" of similar deities or represent similar type deities across multiple pantheon's. Which might be while some seem to suggest the divinities themselves are crossing pantheon's.

The same can be said for astrological signs and their manifestation. We're all distinct individuals, but we're also patterned according to how the stars reflect us. If we understand that in a magical sense, then it becomes more intelligible.


Astrological influences are interesting but complex I think. Especially in that so many various systems exist and can be so different between cultural and social systems. Celestial systems and patterns and their influences get lots of play at times but it seems iffy as well. I think in many pagan / occult systems the most common term is Mercury Retrograde and is blamed for everything.

That isn't to say that the spirits are meaningless or anything of the kind, as they are anything and everything BUT that. That does not, however, mean that they're not also some manner of expression of basic elemental truths within the Universe.


I admit most times I give up when people include "Spirits" in a discussion in any posting. In part because unless they actually define just what they are talking about it's a guess as to how they are defining the word. If it's a person I've been speaking to for a while I can get a general idea of their usage of the word but for a new person then it's really tricky.

I would agree, as I've been hearing the phrase "strophaloi" when I ask her about them. That's a distinct plural, meaning that this too might just be a means of expressing a Divine Truth.


I was asking about them and I agree there are more than one. Yet I got the impression of something else a few times. One time I got the impression of a living thing, almost as if it was some sort of daemon like entity. Yet another time I got the impression of a machine, almost like the idea of Ezekiel's Wheel in the sky of a burning machine. Yet in some accounts Ezekiel's wheel was also a living thing.


Well stated and I agree. There's something about her that really challenges people and pushes their buttons, same as Ol' Horny. Those that embrace either of them often do so because they're pushed to one fringe or another, and those nearer to the center of their social group are a bit less comfortable with the idea of working with a being that's nearer to the center.


Seem's sort of funny to think your being pushed to one extreme or the other but it is the truth. Yet often I find people drawn to Hekate are loners in my experience. Which is funny because people often claim they are experiencing conflict, social collapse, conflict, etc in their lives which is what drove them to the outer boundary. Yet I often find those who are deeply devoted and bound to her are not those. Yes those type may be drawn to her for the duration of their challenge but they tend not to stay with her for the duration or go into the darker aspect's in my opinion.

Its kind of curiously amusing to me, too, as it seems that people are intimidated by a Goddess who has more than one mood, despite that making her more accessible and more relateable. I've always had substantially more difficulty in connecting with those glossed-over beings who are portrayed as being specifically _______. That whitewashing removes the connection and the power, so treating beings like Hekate as legitimate, living deities with likes and dislikes and interests and passions is a far more realistic, useful practice.


I find it interesting that so many equate Hekate as the crone but it's a crone who is more like a grandmother / mother figure. The wisened figure or matronly figure you look up to as a younger woman but hardly ever the truly darker and deeper figure that takes you into the shadow realm and scares the hell out of you.

I'm hoping, too, that people who read these conversations will pop in more and partake. We were all novices at one point in time or another, and that's often the best time to jump and interact. We don't bite....much. :P


I'd like to see more people take part in this discussion, it'd be nice.


And I'm of the mind that the latter idea is actually more correct and ultimately more useful, as everything in the Universe requires some manner of balance unto itself. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, so recognizing that the axiom As Above, So Below applies to ALL things is a huge part of coming to understand the infinite complexity of the known Universe.


See this to me is in error. Balance does not mean equal and opposite. Balance means that when it's all added up it equals 100. So a movement that overall equals 100 is balanced, that means one moment it can be 1 to 99 and the next 50 to 50 then slide to 70 to 30 then 5 to 95. As long as the final product return to 100 on the scale slide then there is balance. It goes back to that idea of equality and equity when people start talking balance most are talking equity when they do the as above so below thing.

We cannot have extreme evil without extreme good, but we also cannot have little evil without little good. If we did, the Universe would have a conniption and seek to rectify this because that's a Base Truth that has to be observed for this existence to continue.


Again your talking equity vice balance here. Go to extreme good or extreme evil you'll still have degree's which means a rotation of some sort.

Now THAT is really rather interesting, as I've been getting the serpent that's both a serpent and not a serpent mental connection in an ongoing fashion. It has been coming up as a repeated area of discussion and conceptual hold. I'm reminded of the serpent and the egg motif in which the serpent is wrapped about the egg (see the omphalos).


The Omphalos would certainly fit. It's also tied to both Apollo and Artemis and depicted on a number of coins. It also makes me think of the Ouroboros in its representation of a serpent / dragon in it's circular form eating it's own tail. It has that start of time and end of time but will never end as time consumes itself.

Here again we have that striping factor in which there's an alternation between textures as a means to magical potency, too.


That's what makes think of the Ouroboros.


I hadn't considered this idea of getting a vision as an aspect of being ridden, but that does make a lot of sense given the experience and its nature. I've had identical experiences in addition to having beings hop on for the sake of more or less autonomous interactions. Framing each of these interactions as being related to being ridden actually createst he means through which we can more readily cultivate that kind of connection, since it reforms the kind of barriers we choose to create.


They can be some serious visions when it happens.

This does, too, correlate with something I'd noticed prior: protection work does tend to insulate oneself from such instances of spiritual connection. If protection is focused on keeping that kind of intersonal spiritual interaction from occurring, then visionary experiences, too, would be limited in their scope.


Depending upon the protections it can limit or restrict just how much interaction there is during the act of being ridden / horsed. I suppose one might equate it to you can actually ride the horse and feel it for yourself or you can use a simulation on a computer and just view it. Viewing it allows you to see it, hear it and possibly have a sense of feeling it but it's still not the same as butt in the saddle.

This concept could well be seen as a blending of essence from two beings as a means of achieving growth and spiritual development, as that would make a whole lot of sense in this context. That could well be a part of the mystery of the strophalos, thinking this through.


Makes you wonder about the phrase "A meeting of two minds"


I suspect you are correct, and in those instances sometimes the instructor is the one that caused you to do whatever you did, so the act of determining whether or not you can recreate what they just did using you is a test unto itself. Hekate seems to love that process with me, and I enjoy it equally as it shows me where I am less skilled, less able, and more in need of greater internal change & more instruction.

In this regard, I hold Hekate in a place of utmost respect. She is many things, and an excellent teacher is very much on that list.


Yep, definitely a great teacher. At times I think she has far more faith in me than I tend to have in myself yet when she puts me in a position where those skills are needed I guess I don't disapoint for she seems pleased with how I perform.


That is indeed a rather interesting response from her, considering the circumstances and the rather volatile nature of the energy associated with a murdered man's tombstone. Particularly given the circumstances you'd described, though frankly none of this comes as a surprise to me.


I actually think that one was a long term lesson because I carried something inside me from that encounter. I was supposed to encounter the death stuff I wasn't supposed to encounter what was down in the mine shaft. I was in my neighbor's living room when I did that and my wife said all color drained from my body, the room went cold and you could feel something puling into the room with us. I had gone down into the shaft where they found his body held in the beams as a projection and never saw the thing come up the shaft from below until the first spur penetrated my back. To finally get me to break the connection my wife had to slap the stone from my hands and shake me forcefully and slap my face. I was so cold I held a hot coffee pot in my hands and never felt it when I touched it though it burnt my hands.

I've had similar experiences in working with the angry, dispossessed, wronged dead, and they are definitely crazy in their own right. The places in which such deaths occurred, too, are traumatized by their very nature.


I had dealt with other angry dead but this place where he died and how he died was different. it was almost ritualistic in the sadistic energy that permeated that place.

That kind of experience changes you, and not often for the better.


That one was definitely not for the better.
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