Hekate & Her Mysteries

Syncretic Egyptian / Graeco-Roman magic from the collection of texts known as the Papyri Graecae Magicae.
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Re: Hekate & Her Mysteries

Post#31 » Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:58 pm

monsnoleedra wrote:For me it just tied in to her holding dominion over the seas. In that capacity I'd not expect her to be dressed in the garments of the land but of the sea's and oceans. Being on the rocks was sort of like how Sailor's envision Mermaid's I suppose but she didn't have the mermaid tail. Which when I saw it made me think she was more than just a sea person but something greater and encompassing of all the things of the waters.

Like I said that persona as a Goddess of the Sea is not one that I hear many practitioners engage her as. I've only ever ran across one other practitioner who actually has seen Hekate in a similar appearance. Even using the same character description of Clypso to describe her.


I think I get what you're driving at, in this context, and it makes some sense. If she is indeed clothed in the sea without actually being of the sea or responsible for the sea, then it would (or could) suggest that she was "adopted" by a power of the sea. That, or she was granted that power, or claimed that power, but at this point I'm theorizing, and there's a good chance that doing so isn't as productive as simply accepting "ok, you show up there too". Such is sometimes the way of things where deities are concerned, though I would feel a little better about it if I could find more to suggest that this is actually historically appropriate.

Granted, were she to tell me that herself, historical curiousity would likely become an afterthought. My feeling her presence at the coast was a close second, and it was certainly most indicative where her tendencies and my understanding of her domain is concerned.

I don't think it's a matter of her powers being tied specifically to the land as much as she just didn't have an interest in causing storms at sea. In part, and this is speculation on my part, but weather at sea is far different than weather on shore. Storms at sea tend to start far off and equally so it's the same with tidal motions and movements. So to create a crashing storm at one place it tends to start hundreds of miles away from that spot and moves to it, small swells that build as the wind blows them and the sync of the waves gets bigger and deeper the closer they get to you. Things that are happening out in the deep waters over great distances usually and across vast distances. That is usually Poseidon's domain in general.

Yet Hekate could play havoc where tides turn bad real quick in liminal spots where say rivers rush out and cross currents meet. Yet they are great fishing grounds due to the stuff coming out of the rivers. Area's around island where the winds churn up the waters and make them rough in nothing flat and make navigation difficult. She doesn't have to cause storms though she can add weather as another danger to an already dangerous situation.

It's closer to the shore line where you'll find the liminal type situations between land and ocean / sea. It's like if you place a statue of Hekate at the entrance of you home because it's not inside and its not outside it's liminal. Then what is the shoreline? That spot where the water is constantly pushing up and running back as you stand in it. It's not land as it is almost always covered with water yet its not sea as it's always on land yet has the floatsum and residue of rock, shell, other items caught in the balance pushed back and forth.


Now this, I follow, as it makes a good bit of sense and fits in with the experiences I've had with her over the years. Especially with respect to the effects of the joining of things, since she seems to preside over those "liminal states" as a result. Where things meet is often where opposites attract, where opposites clash, and where sometimes catastrophic scenarios unfold. This applies itself to where the water reaches the shore, to be sure, but it also applies to all manners of other affairs too..The idea that Poseidon reigns over the places that are harder to get to, harder to reach, with deeper waters fits with what we know of his lore, too.

However, to focus on Hekate in this context, you've raised some very interesting points to meditate upon, especially with regard to liminal spaces and the like. This idea of placating that which could cause havoc at the close is entirely logical, as she's long had a vibe of this kind for me. She's a dangerous being, at her core, but seems to take a liking to some. Especially, it seems, those who are interested in fishing such waters, as the act of taking the risk seems to be of substantial interest to her. That, too, might have an impact on how she interacts with the world.

Following this line of thought, consider the spiritual weather of liminal places. I, for one, have experienced far more activity in the in-between spaces than I have in structured, established locales. Train stations, hospitals, funeral homes (kind of obvious, but pertinently so), post offices (to a lesser extent), crossroads (duh), graveyards, temples, and other such locales tend to be teeming with spiritual life, some of it intelligent and quite manifest. When working with these beings at length, it becomes possible to garner attention from potential allies, but its also possible to experience spiritual power in a more direct sense, which can then speed up the process at which learning about spiritual matters in the process. Its quite fascinating, in its way, and if we apply this idea to Hekate, then she too would be in charge of, or at least partially responsible for the changes that occur there.

By extension, it stands that invoking her and providing offerings whilst requesting assistance navigating those liminal waters would be useful. This could essentially be yet another confirmation that the liminal spaces are indeed HER spaces, bound to her will, her domain, and her potencies. Furthermore, this would be similarly indicative of the nature of what follows her, both with regard to the people who worship or work with her and those entities that are found within her cadre.

Such has been my experiences of Hekate, too, so this seems to be an instance in which history, UPG, and practice all line up in a meaningful, directive kind of way. To those who are reading this without much of an understanding of the Goddess Hekate, this should be instructive and illustrative for you as well. If you seek to work with her in a constructive fashion, seek her out. It has been my experience that she will be there listening, regardless of whether or not you have guidelines to follow.

Think about this. Funeral rites to ensure proper passage into the after life. Part of those rites involve proper burial and preparation of the body. Yet if the body is lost, destroyed then such rites can not be performed. So trading ships, fishing fleets or War ships that are lost during battle such bodies could not be given proper funeral rites. it seems, to me anyway, that some sort of altar and funeral rite would have to be performed on the ship. Granted this may or may not have been given to slaves, haven't truly found any indicators regarding that aspect one way or the other.


Now THAT is a concept I'd not considered before. Thank you for bringing that to the table, as it adds a new dimension to the discussion, and a fairly important one at that. This ties in some to visions I've been granted and experiences I've had with Hekate (and other death-related spirits too).

More than once, I've had conversations with otherworldly beings about the nature of the soul and how it is fit into the body so as to allow the process of life to occur, continue, and evolve. Those interactions have long since directed me to look at the the connection between body and soul in a different light, as there's a kind of locality to them both and the "pairing" that occurs with them is necessary both for life and a good, proper death/burial. Anything that interrupts the interrment of those two things together seems to cause distress and trouble, leading to negative, malefic or otherwise disturbed ghosts.

What you're saying here is yet another facepalm-worthy moments where I can't believe I didn't make the connection before, so go Monsnoleedra & Hekate. :lol:
Following this point to its root, death is essentially seen as the separation between the body and that which animates it. If the body expires while the soul is away, this seems traumatic in nature. Since great violence tends to uproot and offend the soul (speaking somewhat poetically, here), traumatic events may essentially cast the soul in entirety or in part out to the liminal spaces, invoking both Hekate's dominion and the need to placate whatever's left. This has its roots in both Buddhist and Buddhist-peripheral religious and spiritual practices too, as those belief systems tend to have in-built means of placating spirits who died of tragedy.

We see parallels in Shamanism, too, but that'll lead me to a tangent that'll take us off track here.

What I was getting at here is if you look at the Hekate's wheel emblem with it's three loops or hoop's around a central ring you have the idea of running waves. Each waves with a leading and trailing edge to them. Spin the wheel something like a top, especially if you put a pole or pin through the center hole so the wheel is unbalanced. Make it like a children'd top and spin it, the three loops if spun give the impression of three waves chasing each other, or three waves moving about the center mast of a ship at sea. Usually the movement of a ship will cause a V shaped movement through the water but if the water is rough or the waves are breaking all over I've seen it look like they are moving in circles about you as they come from all sides during rough weather.


Ah-ha! Now I've got where you're going with this - thank you for explaining further. Makes a fair bit more sense now with this additional context. It could be, in relation, that the spinning of a top could be useful insofar as evoking that kind of tumultuous, unsteady energy. This is an interesting point to meditate upon.

I've used what we call Reindeer Moss before which works pretty well. Used lichen's when selecting directions to set where to do stuff, same with moss on the bark of tree's. Once was having issue's deciding where something needed to go and asked where she wanted it put. Then all of a sudden the moss on a tree just seemed to start glowing against the backdrop of the area.


Oh, that's pretty cool, and I know just what you mean, though it hasn't happened with moss for me. There are times where particular items or activities have a kind of glow and allure to them that draws me in and gets my attention. When that occurs, its kind of like a landing beacon or lighthouse drawing me in, not unlike what you've described. Sometimes this is a visual artifact, and other times its just felt deeply...sometimes both.

Yep Iron blades was the issue. That or Iron Spikes, that absolutely hated that one. Had some old style railroad spikes and they wanted nothing to do with those.

Chain can be iffy as well. For me I found it depended on if one link was open or closed. If all links were closed then it was a threat, yet if the final link was open then it wasn't seen as a threat. Was sort of strange in that regard. I got the sense that the open link was seen as not trying to bind or trap where all links closed was seen as a threat to trap or bind.


I heartily agree, as anything that could be used as an overt weapon against these entities seems to be a major concern. I haven't noticed any difference between closed or open links, but chains themselves tend to create a lot of interest and, in some cases, fear. The pattern of the chain, too, seems to make an impact, as a standard box chain isn't seen to be the same thing as the links used in industrial chains, for instance.

Spikes have a long history of being downright terrifying to spirits, however, so the fact that blades are, by extension, disconcerting to them makes sense. Tent pegs and fire were two of the things most often used to claim spaces in the earliest of human developments, so naturally they're essentially a kind of indicator that a spirit might not be welcome in that space. In addition to this, in Buddhism there's a series of Phurba (or Kila) practices that revolve around the deity Vajrakilaya and the use of a three-faced dagger as a means of destroying or purifying spirits and things by force. Even spirits who are unfamiliar with the practice itself are quite afraid of it, and rightly so.

A Phurba used correctly can be used to disable, maim, or kill a spirit. That's generally not how its used these days, as it can be a wonderful tool for self-reflection, but it has proven to be uniquely effective when dealing with hauntings and malicious entities. By extension, the same thing can be done with a blade of any kind, though iron takes on a different kind of energy than other materials. Unsurprising, however, given the tie between iron and Mars.

I had a dream about the cairn in fact. Saw the cairn to be built had to be built so that it had a base in the ground but also had a water basin about half way up. Then a half ring of block had to form a semi-circle wall behind it. So it was a cairn to both life and death but had to be built in a different place. Still along the back of the property but more to the right of where that rock formation is.


That's a brilliant idea, to be sure. From your description, I expect that it will be a comforting inclusion on the land, and it should be ritually potent.

That idea of colored ribbons in the tree is actually a Celtic things. They are called Clootie wells (also Cloutie or Cloughtie wells). They were used as part of a healing ritual / cleansing ritual. You dip the cloth in the sacred water and say a prayer or chant for the spirit of the spring / well. I know some druid types still do that and saw it when I was stationed in Scotland back in the early 80's.


Hmm, nifty. This concept shows up in Asiatic cultures as well, but can basically be boiled down to "beautify the space to make it happy", and there's a certain obviousness to it. Had no idea about Clootie Wells though.

It's funny about the young girl. Day before yesterday I was awoken at 3 a.m. in the morning by the young girl whispering "Poppy" in my ear. All my grandkids call me "Poppy" as we have custody of them. At first I though it was my granddaughter but she was sound asleep in her bed, though it might be my wife as she occasionally says it but she to was asleep. Got up and as I walked into the other room saw a faint shadow slip around the corner.

That was the first time she's really connected to me. The next day I think she said it again but that time I didn't wake up fully though I heard dogs barking to. We figure she's about 8 or 9 maybe a bit older though do not know how she is actually connected to the house.


Well, clearly she views you with some level of care and interest, then, and even if she's not tied to the house, she's still visiting and checking up/interacting with you, which is pretty cool.

I usually don't get the violent or unpleasant visitors. Though admit I tend to set boundaries around my yard to prevent those type from coming in as well. Got into that habit a long time ago.

I use incense and burn it fairly often, don't do herbs to often anymore as it messes with my COPD now. Will burn various types of oils though, though most of those are by heating now vice the old method of burning them. Occasionally use candles that are scented but mostly used unscented candles now, and that is to heat the oils. I do use tobacco but that is more as an offering but I admit I have more of a NA influence there regarding that.


As do I, with respect to barriers and boundaries. Though I do have specifically different wards in my office that make it an intermediary space on account of how much magical work I do here. This space is something of a train station in this way, as there's constantly a revolving door on account of the Work. That makes some sense given just how much magic I suffuse my space with on account of my profession, however.

I can't blame you for staying away from burning herbs, given your health.

One thing I can say for certain is I don't think Hekate, or Artemis for that matter, knows what a straight road is. Sometimes it's like doing the Bugs Bunny cartoon where you get the "I Knew I Shoulda Taken That Left Turn At Albuquerque!"


I laughed out loud when I read this, as its bloody well true! Old Horny is the same damned way, and the road is always something of a labyrinth. Put another way, these paths we walk along remind me heavily of the freeways of Seattle....best way I can think to describe them is that someone provided a small child with caffiene and markers, then told 'em to doodle where the freeways go et viola!

//

Be curious to hear it.


I did, in advance of this response, receive permission from the client this situation involves. I am still awaiting proof in the form of a death certificate. I cannot share certain details, given the sacrosanct nature of confidentiality, but here goes.

The two involved are [Tina] and [Rose] (these are not their real names). Rose is the client, Tina was her mother. Tina was something of a terrible person in her life, and inflicted all manners of horror upon her daughter and others in her years, to the point Rose developed eating disorders, serious issues connecting with others, and a slew of other troubles. Tina was a nasty piece of work, and as the saying goes, the mean ones live the longest.

Well, Tina was also schizophrenic and suffering from a stage four cancer. She stubbornly persisted and continued to live as a burden to her family despite suffering terminal agitation and loads of medical emergencies from which she should have expired naturally sometime well into the past. Somehow, hoever, she would continue to exist, causing nothing but pain and suffering to all around her. On and on it went, and it rather seemed like Death lost any kind of oversight with respect to this woman's life, making it into this kind of terrible song that never ends.

Two weeks ago, now, Rose and I were discussing the particulars around her mother, her status, and what all was going on with those circumstances, trying to figure out other logistics in her life, as the financial burden placed upon this family was staggering....to the point where they were really struggling as a unit. Three people were essentially burdened by this piece of work, so it occurred to me that an offering should be made to Hekate to see if this lady was meant to continue to exist.

I wrote a prayer and explanation to Hekate detailing the case, Tina's longevity and how wrong that all seemed to me, given the circumstances. I asked Hekate to review Tina's life and current existence to determine if death was appropriate, requesting that Tina either depart quickly or be made well enough so as to not act as a burden to her family. Tina expired last Tuesday, six days from the petition I placed upon my altar. The date of A's death was Tuesday, February 19th 2019. The petition was placed upon my altar on Wednesday, February 13th, 2019.

Clearly, the petition was granted, given the circumstances, and I performed Last Rites for Tina on the 19th, as that is one of my functions. This situation needed to come to an end, clearly, as Hekate took this woman from this moral coil very quickly. Its left me with questions and considerations around the nature of Her function within the world, as death-giving and soul-taking is clearly well within her role. If she was quickly able and willing to look upon this woman and then make the call, Hekate has the ability to ascertain worth and determine whether or not a person is essentially allowed to stay here.

I don't share this story to minimize the sacrality of life or anything of the kind. Hekate is a powerful goddess, however, and she is more than deserving of accolades and our attempts to better understand her, her mysteries, and her teachings. Rose is now recovering and working to straighten her life out now that her mother's not around to damn her family any longer, and while there's a lot of feelings and emotions for her to process, she's doing better.

The road to healing has now been started upon, on account of this, furthering my understanding that Hekate deeply cares about the balance in and health of our world. Hail Hekate!

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Re: Hekate & Her Mysteries

Post#32 » Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:44 am

Wanderer wrote: I think I get what you're driving at, in this context, and it makes some sense. If she is indeed clothed in the sea without actually being of the sea or responsible for the sea, then it would (or could) suggest that she was "adopted" by a power of the sea. That, or she was granted that power, or claimed that power, but at this point I'm theorizing, and there's a good chance that doing so isn't as productive as simply accepting "ok, you show up there too". Such is sometimes the way of things where deities are concerned, though I would feel a little better about it if I could find more to suggest that this is actually historically appropriate.

Granted, were she to tell me that herself, historical curiousity would likely become an afterthought. My feeling her presence at the coast was a close second, and it was certainly most indicative where her tendencies and my understanding of her domain is concerned.


What you say there about sort of being adopted by the power of the sea sort of applies to Artemis and her influence over animal life in the sea's. Figure she is not per say "Of the sea" her self but as Mistress of Animals she is holding influence over the catch of the sea's. The fertility and fecundity of the waters and how that influences the fisheries and seabeds.

Personally I think that is another of those area's where you tend to loose part of the mythology / historical for they get conflated in the Artemis - Hekate unions. Sometimes authors / poets instead of coming outright and stating one or the other join the names such as Artemis-Hekate or Hekate-Artemis and your left to wonder if Artemis was seen acting as Hekate or Hekate was acting as Artemis. That or something like Hekate of the Wilderness where it implies Hekate is acting in a manner like Artemis and whomever is listening or reading the play would understand that when reading it.


Now this, I follow, as it makes a good bit of sense and fits in with the experiences I've had with her over the years. Especially with respect to the effects of the joining of things, since she seems to preside over those "liminal states" as a result. Where things meet is often where opposites attract, where opposites clash, and where sometimes catastrophic scenarios unfold. This applies itself to where the water reaches the shore, to be sure, but it also applies to all manners of other affairs too..The idea that Poseidon reigns over the places that are harder to get to, harder to reach, with deeper waters fits with what we know of his lore, too.

However, to focus on Hekate in this context, you've raised some very interesting points to meditate upon, especially with regard to liminal spaces and the like. This idea of placating that which could cause havoc at the close is entirely logical, as she's long had a vibe of this kind for me. She's a dangerous being, at her core, but seems to take a liking to some. Especially, it seems, those who are interested in fishing such waters, as the act of taking the risk seems to be of substantial interest to her. That, too, might have an impact on how she interacts with the world.

Following this line of thought, consider the spiritual weather of liminal places. I, for one, have experienced far more activity in the in-between spaces than I have in structured, established locales. Train stations, hospitals, funeral homes (kind of obvious, but pertinently so), post offices (to a lesser extent), crossroads (duh), graveyards, temples, and other such locales tend to be teeming with spiritual life, some of it intelligent and quite manifest. When working with these beings at length, it becomes possible to garner attention from potential allies, but its also possible to experience spiritual power in a more direct sense, which can then speed up the process at which learning about spiritual matters in the process. Its quite fascinating, in its way, and if we apply this idea to Hekate, then she too would be in charge of, or at least partially responsible for the changes that occur there.

By extension, it stands that invoking her and providing offerings whilst requesting assistance navigating those liminal waters would be useful. This could essentially be yet another confirmation that the liminal spaces are indeed HER spaces, bound to her will, her domain, and her potencies. Furthermore, this would be similarly indicative of the nature of what follows her, both with regard to the people who worship or work with her and those entities that are found within her cadre.

Such has been my experiences of Hekate, too, so this seems to be an instance in which history, UPG, and practice all line up in a meaningful, directive kind of way. To those who are reading this without much of an understanding of the Goddess Hekate, this should be instructive and illustrative for you as well. If you seek to work with her in a constructive fashion, seek her out. It has been my experience that she will be there listening, regardless of whether or not you have guidelines to follow.


Not sure about liminal places but chaotic places which tend to be liminal zones. Yet there are various types of liminal zones with each having a different type of chaos that is found to dominate them. When I think about the various types of chaos I notices many times it appears to align with Hekate's various persona's or energy which often seem's to suggest which aspect I shall most likely encounter at each.

For instance at a hospice I'm not going to encounter her darker destructive energy that I've encountered at a battlefield with it's deaths. Yet it's the same with the energy to be found in a maternity ward, it's different aspect. Go to a graveyard and it's still different in nature than what you'll encounter at a hospice, the hospice is a sharper cutting energy. Yet the graveyard holds a deeper agony and sense of time and passage and a softening of pain to it. More of an echo of things than a vibrant burning in the now.

Yet the graveyard / cemetery also is more likely to hold the anguish of the restless dead who can't cross. Yet they are not present all over the place but sort of restricted to various areas of the place and in shadows or corners. Yet it also depends upon the age and conditions of the place in general to be honest. but again there is a difference of chaos that is felt in different locations.

I live in the mountains and one of the things I happened to notice is the way the rock folds and bends. Part of that has to do with the magnetic lines in the rock. Whether things move up into the air or push down into the ground. As I work in various area's I noticed that in various places it was easier to work with her celestial form if the rock folds pointed upwards. Inversely, it was easier to work with her chthonic forms if the rock folds pointed downwards. The reason I point that out is I used to wonder though never really could test it along the shoreline regarding subduction zones along the coastline. When I was stationed in Japan I always felt the power of the earth along the shoreline and felt Hekate but the whole of Japan basically sits on the ring of fire. But it was similar in many ways to how I would get super charged at times in parts of the Med and Black Sea where there was Volcanoes and I'd get lots of "Impressions" during dreamtime from her.


Now THAT is a concept I'd not considered before. Thank you for bringing that to the table, as it adds a new dimension to the discussion, and a fairly important one at that. This ties in some to visions I've been granted and experiences I've had with Hekate (and other death-related spirits too).

More than once, I've had conversations with otherworldly beings about the nature of the soul and how it is fit into the body so as to allow the process of life to occur, continue, and evolve. Those interactions have long since directed me to look at the the connection between body and soul in a different light, as there's a kind of locality to them both and the "pairing" that occurs with them is necessary both for life and a good, proper death/burial. Anything that interrupts the interrment of those two things together seems to cause distress and trouble, leading to negative, malefic or otherwise disturbed ghosts.


I've had to be a Spirit Keeper a few times and some of that has been the topic of discussion for me as well. The dropping of earthly garb and separating of forms. Fractured soul's is a full discussion all it's own.

Oh, that's pretty cool, and I know just what you mean, though it hasn't happened with moss for me. There are times where particular items or activities have a kind of glow and allure to them that draws me in and gets my attention. When that occurs, its kind of like a landing beacon or lighthouse drawing me in, not unlike what you've described. Sometimes this is a visual artifact, and other times its just felt deeply...sometimes both.


Visuals are interesting to say the least. The ones I hate though are when it seems I am either strongly pulled to go somewhere to the point where I have to change what I am doing. That or I've actually had it feel as if something has taken control over my body and moved me to someplace. Not like sleep waking for your fully aware and awake, your just not in control but going along for the ride.

Spikes have a long history of being downright terrifying to spirits, however, so the fact that blades are, by extension, disconcerting to them makes sense. Tent pegs and fire were two of the things most often used to claim spaces in the earliest of human developments, so naturally they're essentially a kind of indicator that a spirit might not be welcome in that space. In addition to this, in Buddhism there's a series of Phurba (or Kila) practices that revolve around the deity Vajrakilaya and the use of a three-faced dagger as a means of destroying or purifying spirits and things by force. Even spirits who are unfamiliar with the practice itself are quite afraid of it, and rightly so.

A Phurba used correctly can be used to disable, maim, or kill a spirit. That's generally not how its used these days, as it can be a wonderful tool for self-reflection, but it has proven to be uniquely effective when dealing with hauntings and malicious entities. By extension, the same thing can be done with a blade of any kind, though iron takes on a different kind of energy than other materials. Unsurprising, however, given the tie between iron and Mars.


Ironically I find they do not like Brass or Copper either. Iron is definitely a no no, that's natural iron, steel that is processed many times is sort of half and half as it often doesn't have the iron content to it. Blades though are not a good thing for the most part in most of the workings I've done. Didn't matter whether the blade was truly sharpened or dulled.

Funny though in most of my workings though I've always used a Samurai sword with a blade engraved with a dragon and white cord dressings. The short sword is equally engraved and dressed. Both of them I picked up when I was stationed in Japan. They are not fighting swords but are more than decoration swords and are heavy material.


I did, in advance of this response, receive permission from the client this situation involves. I am still awaiting proof in the form of a death certificate. I cannot share certain details, given the sacrosanct nature of confidentiality, but here goes.

The two involved are [Tina] and [Rose] (these are not their real names). Rose is the client, Tina was her mother. Tina was something of a terrible person in her life, and inflicted all manners of horror upon her daughter and others in her years, to the point Rose developed eating disorders, serious issues connecting with others, and a slew of other troubles. Tina was a nasty piece of work, and as the saying goes, the mean ones live the longest.

Well, Tina was also schizophrenic and suffering from a stage four cancer. She stubbornly persisted and continued to live as a burden to her family despite suffering terminal agitation and loads of medical emergencies from which she should have expired naturally sometime well into the past. Somehow, hoever, she would continue to exist, causing nothing but pain and suffering to all around her. On and on it went, and it rather seemed like Death lost any kind of oversight with respect to this woman's life, making it into this kind of terrible song that never ends.

Two weeks ago, now, Rose and I were discussing the particulars around her mother, her status, and what all was going on with those circumstances, trying to figure out other logistics in her life, as the financial burden placed upon this family was staggering....to the point where they were really struggling as a unit. Three people were essentially burdened by this piece of work, so it occurred to me that an offering should be made to Hekate to see if this lady was meant to continue to exist.

I wrote a prayer and explanation to Hekate detailing the case, Tina's longevity and how wrong that all seemed to me, given the circumstances. I asked Hekate to review Tina's life and current existence to determine if death was appropriate, requesting that Tina either depart quickly or be made well enough so as to not act as a burden to her family. Tina expired last Tuesday, six days from the petition I placed upon my altar. The date of A's death was Tuesday, February 19th 2019. The petition was placed upon my altar on Wednesday, February 13th, 2019.

Clearly, the petition was granted, given the circumstances, and I performed Last Rites for Tina on the 19th, as that is one of my functions. This situation needed to come to an end, clearly, as Hekate took this woman from this moral coil very quickly. Its left me with questions and considerations around the nature of Her function within the world, as death-giving and soul-taking is clearly well within her role. If she was quickly able and willing to look upon this woman and then make the call, Hekate has the ability to ascertain worth and determine whether or not a person is essentially allowed to stay here.

I don't share this story to minimize the sacrality of life or anything of the kind. Hekate is a powerful goddess, however, and she is more than deserving of accolades and our attempts to better understand her, her mysteries, and her teachings. Rose is now recovering and working to straighten her life out now that her mother's not around to damn her family any longer, and while there's a lot of feelings and emotions for her to process, she's doing better.

The road to healing has now been started upon, on account of this, furthering my understanding that Hekate deeply cares about the balance in and health of our world. Hail Hekate!


Those are always hard one's to work. As I read it over the thing that keep running through my head was you need to finish it up and give her a travelling song so her spirit crosses over and she fully drops her earthly garb.
Can't Never Did Nothing Till It Tried!

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Re: Hekate & Her Mysteries

Post#33 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:07 pm

monsnoleedra wrote:What you say there about sort of being adopted by the power of the sea sort of applies to Artemis and her influence over animal life in the sea's. Figure she is not per say "Of the sea" her self but as Mistress of Animals she is holding influence over the catch of the sea's. The fertility and fecundity of the waters and how that influences the fisheries and seabeds.

Personally I think that is another of those area's where you tend to loose part of the mythology / historical for they get conflated in the Artemis - Hekate unions. Sometimes authors / poets instead of coming outright and stating one or the other join the names such as Artemis-Hekate or Hekate-Artemis and your left to wonder if Artemis was seen acting as Hekate or Hekate was acting as Artemis. That or something like Hekate of the Wilderness where it implies Hekate is acting in a manner like Artemis and whomever is listening or reading the play would understand that when reading it.


I concur, and that's the attitude I've adopted in interacting with beings from the sea in response to our conversations. There's been a little wiggle, but not much of one...when next I return to the coast, I'll be interested to see if there's a change in the energy and flow of the locale as I expect there to be. I'm still determining how best to make use of this information, however, as I do not derive my livelihood from the sea and thus don't spend much time out in it.

I'd often wondered, however, if that was the nature of the reference given in PGM spells and the like. We see some of this in the PGM, for instance:

"Come, giant Hekate, Dionne’s guard, / O Persia, Baubo Phronue, dart-shooter, unconquered Lydian, the one untamed, sired nobly, torch-bearing, guide, who bends down proud necks, Kore, hear, you who’ve parted / gates of steel unbreakable. o Artemis, who, too, were once protectress, mighty one, mistress, who burst forth from the earth, dog-leader, all-tamer, crossroad goddess, triple-headed, bringer of light, august / virgin, I call you fawn-slayer, crafty, o infernal one, and many formed. Come, Hekate, goddess of three ways, who with your fire-breathing phantoms have been allotted dreaded roads and harsh/ enchantments. Hekate I call you with those who have died without a wife and children, hissing wildly, yearning in their hearts"

These certainly appear to be prayers that call Hekate in her wilder aspects that are similar to Artemis and like beings, rather than calling her Artemis instead. Its theoretically plausible that they could have some interrelation other than having like personalities, but it certainly doesn't feel like it when I've interacted with Artemis or her brother Apollo in unrelated rituals. This, to me, gives credence to the idea that we'd be calling Hekate in her Artemis-like modality instead, using this as a means of conveying the desired attitude.

Not sure about liminal places but chaotic places which tend to be liminal zones. Yet there are various types of liminal zones with each having a different type of chaos that is found to dominate them. When I think about the various types of chaos I notices many times it appears to align with Hekate's various persona's or energy which often seem's to suggest which aspect I shall most likely encounter at each.

For instance at a hospice I'm not going to encounter her darker destructive energy that I've encountered at a battlefield with it's deaths. Yet it's the same with the energy to be found in a maternity ward, it's different aspect. Go to a graveyard and it's still different in nature than what you'll encounter at a hospice, the hospice is a sharper cutting energy. Yet the graveyard holds a deeper agony and sense of time and passage and a softening of pain to it. More of an echo of things than a vibrant burning in the now.

Yet the graveyard / cemetery also is more likely to hold the anguish of the restless dead who can't cross. Yet they are not present all over the place but sort of restricted to various areas of the place and in shadows or corners. Yet it also depends upon the age and conditions of the place in general to be honest. but again there is a difference of chaos that is felt in different locations.

I live in the mountains and one of the things I happened to notice is the way the rock folds and bends. Part of that has to do with the magnetic lines in the rock. Whether things move up into the air or push down into the ground. As I work in various area's I noticed that in various places it was easier to work with her celestial form if the rock folds pointed upwards. Inversely, it was easier to work with her chthonic forms if the rock folds pointed downwards. The reason I point that out is I used to wonder though never really could test it along the shoreline regarding subduction zones along the coastline. When I was stationed in Japan I always felt the power of the earth along the shoreline and felt Hekate but the whole of Japan basically sits on the ring of fire. But it was similar in many ways to how I would get super charged at times in parts of the Med and Black Sea where there was Volcanoes and I'd get lots of "Impressions" during dreamtime from her.


We align on this too. In each of those zones, Hekate can be found but the attitude with which she appears is different unless some element of that locale requires a different kind of manifestation from that which would normally be appropriate or required. For instance, to use your example of a graveyard, for the most part the form of Hekate that I interact with is calm, collected, and present as an observer rather than as a wrathful manifestation of one kind or another.

This changes dramatically, however, when angry, unsettled ghosts are found or otherwise appear. When a spirit becomes angry in such a place, so too does her manifestation shift in intensity and direction. Instead of remaining watchful and interested, Hekate's presence grows darker and more intent, feeling rather more substantive and aggressive as a direct result. This, to me, is generally interpreted as and felt to be an example of her being present and cognizant...in essence, we don't just get a deaf and dumb version of Hekate when she's found in those places. Instead, she's very much alive and responsive, she just might not choose to respond to us in that moment.

I'll have to experiment with her volcanic aspects, however, as I have noticed that she strongly favors obsidian in my works with her.

I've had to be a Spirit Keeper a few times and some of that has been the topic of discussion for me as well. The dropping of earthly garb and separating of forms. Fractured soul's is a full discussion all it's own.


What do you mean by "Spirit Keeper" in this context? Are we speaking on the subject of working with and enslaving the dead, or something else entirely?

Visuals are interesting to say the least. The ones I hate though are when it seems I am either strongly pulled to go somewhere to the point where I have to change what I am doing. That or I've actually had it feel as if something has taken control over my body and moved me to someplace. Not like sleep waking for your fully aware and awake, your just not in control but going along for the ride.


Yep! I know that one...being "asleep" for the ride is one thing, being awake and forced to move is something else entirely. Its rather more like being in the passenger's seat while someone is driving, and that can be a bit much at points. You're locked-in and locked-on, but as with a rollercoaster, there is no brake.

Ironically I find they do not like Brass or Copper either. Iron is definitely a no no, that's natural iron, steel that is processed many times is sort of half and half as it often doesn't have the iron content to it. Blades though are not a good thing for the most part in most of the workings I've done. Didn't matter whether the blade was truly sharpened or dulled.

Funny though in most of my workings though I've always used a Samurai sword with a blade engraved with a dragon and white cord dressings. The short sword is equally engraved and dressed. Both of them I picked up when I was stationed in Japan. They are not fighting swords but are more than decoration swords and are heavy material.


That is indeed interesting, as I've never had that issue with other metals. Just iron and steel. Otherwise, the response is usally a bit like a "meh?" The spirits question it a little, but otherwise don't give me any guff. If its iron, then that's another story entirely and the response is often violent and substantially manifest.

If the sword you're referring to isn't sharp or capable of holding an edge, there's a good chance it has zinc in it. Many of those pieces are polished up nicely, but aren't made from anything that can do a whole lot of damage. I had one such piece many years ago, and spirits did not seem to give even an iota's worth of a damn that I had it around, despite it being shaped like a sword.

They had more issue with a simple, non-locking folding knife.

Those are always hard one's to work. As I read it over the thing that keep running through my head was you need to finish it up and give her a travelling song so her spirit crosses over and she fully drops her earthly garb.


They are indeed, but these cases do need to be worked with a fair bit of sincerity and care. At this point, the client's mother has been cremated as of this past weekend, so now all that's left is indeed this song you've mentioned. That is something I plan to do this evening, as it seems that this and the related prayer that goes into it is all that's holding Tina's spirit back at this juncture.

Following my last response on this thread, Hekate had a few things more to share with me and show me that relate themselves to spirit work. One of the concept she had me work with a bit involved her triplicity within a triangle. I was told to draw a triangle and write her name thrice, from each of the triangle's points inwards.

From there, I was instructed to place the name of a spirit dead center in the triangle as a means of calling them forth. I tested this some, and it worked brilliantly for deities and the dead alike. She's been building upon this technology since, and it seems like she's quite interested in having me use this to contact various elemental beings in particular. I'm looking forward to playing with this more as a means of exploring the subject matter.

Ring any bells for you?

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Re: Hekate & Her Mysteries

Post#34 » Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:14 am

Wanderer wrote: What do you mean by "Spirit Keeper" in this context? Are we speaking on the subject of working with and enslaving the dead, or something else entirely?


I've switched the order of things around a bit on this one. Just felt I needed to.

A Spirit Keeper is a Psychopomp role. Basically the person agree's to assist the spirit of the deceased as they transition while they drop their earthly garb. it might be for a short time or it could be upwards of a year in duration. The person who agree's might be called upon to create a spirit body for the person's shade to inhabit while they come to terms with their death and release their attachment to the physical world. They might also create a spirit house for the body to reside in.

As part of the procedure the Keeper will often act as a "Voice" for the shade and pass on any message's or requests to the living. Many times these are tethers that hold the spirit earth bound. The keeper may also become a focal point where items that the spirit wants passed on to people will be funneled through.

The Keeper may also become the Singer of Songs for the Spirit and sing it's life song, travelling song. May do other rites and rituals the spirit will need to be purified or blessed in order for it to be released. It's like I found I would suddenly have family member's needing to "Talk" to me about the deceased and just release things. A couple times when I was at work they'd just come in and sit and start talking about the person who had passed. More than a few times I wrote travelling songs for people I never met based upon the stories I was told.

The other thing was telling people about what I call the Kiss of Passing or Kiss of Goodbye. So many where hurt their loved one was gone and didn't touch them, but they didn't realize they actually did tell them when they did pass. But the Spirit wanted them to know.

They are indeed, but these cases do need to be worked with a fair bit of sincerity and care. At this point, the client's mother has been cremated as of this past weekend, so now all that's left is indeed this song you've mentioned. That is something I plan to do this evening, as it seems that this and the related prayer that goes into it is all that's holding Tina's spirit back at this juncture.

Following my last response on this thread, Hekate had a few things more to share with me and show me that relate themselves to spirit work. One of the concept she had me work with a bit involved her triplicity within a triangle. I was told to draw a triangle and write her name thrice, from each of the triangle's points inwards.

From there, I was instructed to place the name of a spirit dead center in the triangle as a means of calling them forth. I tested this some, and it worked brilliantly for deities and the dead alike. She's been building upon this technology since, and it seems like she's quite interested in having me use this to contact various elemental beings in particular. I'm looking forward to playing with this more as a means of exploring the subject matter.

Ring any bells for you?


I moved this up here because while it is not quite the same it matches up in many ways to one of the forms of Spirit Houses and Gate Ways I have done.

As a Spirit House, the house serves the purpose of giving the Spirit a place to live and reside but also a portal that resides upon two planes of existence. Once the spirit has concluded it's time upon this plane it can finish dropping its garb and basically step from its house and cross over.

That particular form of house was nothing more than a series of triangles. I vaguely recall I used a typical pyramid of four sides and I've used a 3 sided one as well. Of course realistically that would be 5 and 4 sided considering the bases.

Now figure with a spirit form and spirit body you'd write the name of the person upon the body either up and down or circular wrapping it about the body. Basically creating sort of a poppet type figure that is somewhat breathed into life as the deceased is housed in it while it drops its earthly garb and it's essence detaches from it's earthly life. How the poppet is made really varies from person to person and honestly from culture to culture. Then at the end the poppet it's self is given a final proper burial with the last rites. It's the final sequence of being the Spirit Keeper and observing the rites. That or deconstructing it if that was what was agreed upon.


I concur, and that's the attitude I've adopted in interacting with beings from the sea in response to our conversations. There's been a little wiggle, but not much of one...when next I return to the coast, I'll be interested to see if there's a change in the energy and flow of the locale as I expect there to be. I'm still determining how best to make use of this information, however, as I do not derive my livelihood from the sea and thus don't spend much time out in it.

I'd often wondered, however, if that was the nature of the reference given in PGM spells and the like. We see some of this in the PGM, for instance:

"Come, giant Hekate, Dionne’s guard, / O Persia, Baubo Phronue, dart-shooter, unconquered Lydian, the one untamed, sired nobly, torch-bearing, guide, who bends down proud necks, Kore, hear, you who’ve parted / gates of steel unbreakable. o Artemis, who, too, were once protectress, mighty one, mistress, who burst forth from the earth, dog-leader, all-tamer, crossroad goddess, triple-headed, bringer of light, august / virgin, I call you fawn-slayer, crafty, o infernal one, and many formed. Come, Hekate, goddess of three ways, who with your fire-breathing phantoms have been allotted dreaded roads and harsh/ enchantments. Hekate I call you with those who have died without a wife and children, hissing wildly, yearning in their hearts"

These certainly appear to be prayers that call Hekate in her wilder aspects that are similar to Artemis and like beings, rather than calling her Artemis instead. Its theoretically plausible that they could have some interrelation other than having like personalities, but it certainly doesn't feel like it when I've interacted with Artemis or her brother Apollo in unrelated rituals. This, to me, gives credence to the idea that we'd be calling Hekate in her Artemis-like modality instead, using this as a means of conveying the desired attitude.


It'd be interesting to see how things change at the coast next time your there. What might be interesting though is will things have changed or will your perception of them change? It's like you'll notice it this time and think it's new or will you notice it this time and think back and notice it's always been that way.

I recall I was teaching a military class once and one of my female students said something and I told her I was not like that. She told me yes I was but it was ok. It was just that I had been doing it so long and never noticed it because no one ever said anything about it. Yet once someone said something then I had to reconsider how I reflected back upon things. When I gave it a fair reflection it was there but like she said it had never been discussed so I never saw it, Nothing negative, just had never given it a though before, so never consider it before.

The PGM and how things are worded or implied to be honest drives me nuts at times. I think the writers were like some of the old Shaman who liked to create "Images" for the audience. So lots of words to instill this visual but also lots of words to try and impress other practitioners.


We align on this too. In each of those zones, Hekate can be found but the attitude with which she appears is different unless some element of that locale requires a different kind of manifestation from that which would normally be appropriate or required. For instance, to use your example of a graveyard, for the most part the form of Hekate that I interact with is calm, collected, and present as an observer rather than as a wrathful manifestation of one kind or another.

This changes dramatically, however, when angry, unsettled ghosts are found or otherwise appear. When a spirit becomes angry in such a place, so too does her manifestation shift in intensity and direction. Instead of remaining watchful and interested, Hekate's presence grows darker and more intent, feeling rather more substantive and aggressive as a direct result. This, to me, is generally interpreted as and felt to be an example of her being present and cognizant...in essence, we don't just get a deaf and dumb version of Hekate when she's found in those places. Instead, she's very much alive and responsive, she just might not choose to respond to us in that moment.

I'll have to experiment with her volcanic aspects, however, as I have noticed that she strongly favors obsidian in my works with her.


Have to admit I do not observe Hekate as that wrathful manifestation. Think the closest I came to that occurred when she was in the room with Kali and that was not a pretty site. So to be honest really do not want to see that one again. Not to say I have not seen her displeased with me. That's harsh enough as it is. Can't say I've ever encountered here as a deaf and dumb version though, heck not even an impartial observer version.

Ironically the closest thing I've ever seen that might be an impartial observer is more like a cat observing a mouse. You think it's paying no attention yet it's fully aware of every movement the mouse has made and exactly where the mouse is at. it can tell you the mouse's heart rate, breath rate, where it is looking and where the mouse it getting ready to run to even before the mouse is sure where it is getting ready to run to.

Hekate is interesting around cemeteries and graveyards but I find her most unsettling around intersections outside of old cities & towns. When I was in Europe I happened upon a few old death roads and those were somewhat creepy as she could be felt around those all the time.


That is indeed interesting, as I've never had that issue with other metals. Just iron and steel. Otherwise, the response is usally a bit like a "meh?" The spirits question it a little, but otherwise don't give me any guff. If its iron, then that's another story entirely and the response is often violent and substantially manifest.

If the sword you're referring to isn't sharp or capable of holding an edge, there's a good chance it has zinc in it. Many of those pieces are polished up nicely, but aren't made from anything that can do a whole lot of damage. I had one such piece many years ago, and spirits did not seem to give even an iota's worth of a damn that I had it around, despite it being shaped like a sword.

They had more issue with a simple, non-locking folding knife.


Never really used any hunting knives as part of my practice. Had a few dagger type knives but they never felt right though I've had them present but never pulled them out of their sheaths. Know what you means about a number of your "Decoration" blades being zinc mixtures so will not take an edge. Some are really flimsy blades while others are heavier but strictly for show.

Don't know what it was about bronze or copper but they didn't like it when I had it present. Both were small blades, dagger like blades nothing large or fancy near as I recall now. Funny as I type this I keep hearing Empousa which I know is that creature with the one leg made from with Copper or Bronze but not sure if that was the reason why.
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Re: Hekate & Her Mysteries

Post#35 » Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:49 pm

monsnoleedra wrote:I've switched the order of things around a bit on this one. Just felt I needed to.


Works for me.

A Spirit Keeper is a Psychopomp role. Basically the person agree's to assist the spirit of the deceased as they transition while they drop their earthly garb. it might be for a short time or it could be upwards of a year in duration. The person who agree's might be called upon to create a spirit body for the person's shade to inhabit while they come to terms with their death and release their attachment to the physical world. They might also create a spirit house for the body to reside in.

As part of the procedure the Keeper will often act as a "Voice" for the shade and pass on any message's or requests to the living. Many times these are tethers that hold the spirit earth bound. The keeper may also become a focal point where items that the spirit wants passed on to people will be funneled through.

The Keeper may also become the Singer of Songs for the Spirit and sing it's life song, travelling song. May do other rites and rituals the spirit will need to be purified or blessed in order for it to be released. It's like I found I would suddenly have family member's needing to "Talk" to me about the deceased and just release things. A couple times when I was at work they'd just come in and sit and start talking about the person who had passed. More than a few times I wrote travelling songs for people I never met based upon the stories I was told.

The other thing was telling people about what I call the Kiss of Passing or Kiss of Goodbye. So many where hurt their loved one was gone and didn't touch them, but they didn't realize they actually did tell them when they did pass. But the Spirit wanted them to know.


Ah, I follow. Thank you for spelling this out, as you're referring to a role I'm well familiar with...just using a different name for it. For me, these acts fall under the job of Psychopomp and Priest, so "Spirit Keeper" is now a term I can associate with the role itself. Cheers.

In essence, you're referring to caretaking both the transitioning spirit and their families, where necessary. This is a cluegy place of work, but a powerful one that can create tethers between the practitioner and the spirit world. If you're reading this and considering delving into this role, be aware that this kind of work can be incredibly dangerous and damaging to the ones doing this kind of work. Its not the kind of thing that elongates your life, in my experience, but it makes for an all the more sacred role given the inherent sacrifice that's bound up in working with the dead this closely.

Anyhow, now that I understand what you're referencing, yes, this is a very Hekatean role to play. I've found that when I do this, it gives me the opportunity to create familial fetish items that connect the living to the dearly departed, and that can give the dead more reason to move on because then they're less worried about losing that connection to their families. In addition to this, there are some times in which the dead can be brought back to reincarnate as a part of the family line, but that generally requires some pretty serious approval and connections On High.

Its not a common thing to do, but it can occur.

One of my favorite things to do in this role is to hear stories of the deceased, however pleasant or unpleasant. The act of hearing them can be made sacred, and the departed's soul can be bound up in their favorite stories as a means of keeping them alive in the same sense as what was understood of the Egyptian afterlife.

I moved this up here because while it is not quite the same it matches up in many ways to one of the forms of Spirit Houses and Gate Ways I have done.


I feel you. This area of magic seems uniquely important and significant to me.

As a Spirit House, the house serves the purpose of giving the Spirit a place to live and reside but also a portal that resides upon two planes of existence. Once the spirit has concluded it's time upon this plane it can finish dropping its garb and basically step from its house and cross over.


Interesting, as that's one of the examples Hekate gave me. Specifically, she talked about the use of a physical object or talisman like a birdhouse that could be created and subsequently burned to ashes at the end of a being's life as a means of giving the spirit a healthy vantage point within which they could interact with their loved ones. It does connect several different planes of existence, however, so there's a serious of protective spells and measures that need to be used in order to keep the space within the spirit house sacrosanct.

This all reminds me very heavily of tech I was brought up around, as half of my family is from Japan where spirit houses are regularly used as a means of taking care of the spirits of place. There's a distinct deal of overlap to be had here, however, as this kind of conceptual technology definitely exists elsewhere.

That particular form of house was nothing more than a series of triangles. I vaguely recall I used a typical pyramid of four sides and I've used a 3 sided one as well. Of course realistically that would be 5 and 4 sided considering the bases.


Interesting. Do you recall any sort of meaning to the individual number of sides to these triangles? I've only done a bit of research into this, so the geometry of the subject seems to be a bit outside my grasp at the moment.

Now figure with a spirit form and spirit body you'd write the name of the person upon the body either up and down or circular wrapping it about the body. Basically creating sort of a poppet type figure that is somewhat breathed into life as the deceased is housed in it while it drops its earthly garb and it's essence detaches from it's earthly life. How the poppet is made really varies from person to person and honestly from culture to culture. Then at the end the poppet it's self is given a final proper burial with the last rites. It's the final sequence of being the Spirit Keeper and observing the rites. That or deconstructing it if that was what was agreed upon.


I've done something similar to this using flash paper, tying it to the body of the poppet representing the deceased and then lighting it aflame as a means of giving up the ghost, so to speak. It was quite effective.

It'd be interesting to see how things change at the coast next time your there. What might be interesting though is will things have changed or will your perception of them change? It's like you'll notice it this time and think it's new or will you notice it this time and think back and notice it's always been that way.


I've caught myself wondering the same, and I expect it will be a little bit of column A & a little of column B. I expect that my impression and perception will have changed to become aware of the considerations and flow of the area, while the spirits of place will likewise have changed to account for the shift in my awareness. I'm reminded of Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle here, as it most definitely applies to spirit work, as the very act of observing the spirit world changes both the viewer and the content that is viewed.

I recall I was teaching a military class once and one of my female students said something and I told her I was not like that. She told me yes I was but it was ok. It was just that I had been doing it so long and never noticed it because no one ever said anything about it. Yet once someone said something then I had to reconsider how I reflected back upon things. When I gave it a fair reflection it was there but like she said it had never been discussed so I never saw it, Nothing negative, just had never given it a though before, so never consider it before.[


Makes sense to me, and I've had similar observations come to me over the years. Sometimes through conversations, and sometimes just through inspiration as a base.

The PGM and how things are worded or implied to be honest drives me nuts at times. I think the writers were like some of the old Shaman who liked to create "Images" for the audience. So lots of words to instill this visual but also lots of words to try and impress other practitioners.


For me as well. Some of the overly flowery wording and the cadence with which its presented doesn't make any sense whatsoever, so I try to enter into this with an interest in understanding what the writer was attempting to convey. Its one part psychology, one part anthropology, and I've found that this mindset serves me well. Especially when coming to understand some of the more abstract concepts.

Have to admit I do not observe Hekate as that wrathful manifestation. Think the closest I came to that occurred when she was in the room with Kali and that was not a pretty site. So to be honest really do not want to see that one again. Not to say I have not seen her displeased with me. That's harsh enough as it is. Can't say I've ever encountered here as a deaf and dumb version though, heck not even an impartial observer version.

Ironically the closest thing I've ever seen that might be an impartial observer is more like a cat observing a mouse. You think it's paying no attention yet it's fully aware of every movement the mouse has made and exactly where the mouse is at. it can tell you the mouse's heart rate, breath rate, where it is looking and where the mouse it getting ready to run to even before the mouse is sure where it is getting ready to run to.

Hekate is interesting around cemeteries and graveyards but I find her most unsettling around intersections outside of old cities & towns. When I was in Europe I happened upon a few old death roads and those were somewhat creepy as she could be felt around those all the time.


This could be, respectively, a "you" thing or a "me" thing, as I was raised Buddhist and thus do have some appreciation of being manifesting as compassionate onlookers, teachers, wrathfully compassionate entities, and so forth. She's never really been wrathful towards me, but there are definitely moments of "mom" becoming a little agitated with her children where troublesome spirits are concerned.

Your allegory of a cat observing a mouse is incredibly fitting and astute, as that's exactly what its felt like in the past.

Never really used any hunting knives as part of my practice. Had a few dagger type knives but they never felt right though I've had them present but never pulled them out of their sheaths. Know what you means about a number of your "Decoration" blades being zinc mixtures so will not take an edge. Some are really flimsy blades while others are heavier but strictly for show.

Don't know what it was about bronze or copper but they didn't like it when I had it present. Both were small blades, dagger like blades nothing large or fancy near as I recall now. Funny as I type this I keep hearing Empousa which I know is that creature with the one leg made from with Copper or Bronze but not sure if that was the reason why.


I'd be curious to understand why spirits might have some issues with bronze or copper. Perhaps its an affinity thing?

For whatever reason, I'd never really registered that the Empousa had a bronze leg attached to them, despite having interacted with them in the past (I'm facepalming over here, if that's not evident). On a symbolic level, that essentially means that they're wandering around with a tent peg as a leg, which has a weird kind of tie in to an idea that shows up in Buddhism: stamping one's foot and intoning the letter Hum is a means of scattering energies that are disharmonious or do not belong.

I'd adapted this tech to utilize a phurba in the work for both binding and constraining, so viewing a Empousa as having the same kind of innate capability places them in the role of being a kind of space-controlling being. Weirdly, that fits with an impression I had of having Empousa at the quarters during a rite with Hekate, though I only saw them emerging from the ground, with their feet buried in the Earth.

I've not found a mythological reference for this, but it sticks out in the mind.

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Re: Hekate & Her Mysteries

Post#36 » Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:53 pm

Wanderer wrote: Ah, I follow. Thank you for spelling this out, as you're referring to a role I'm well familiar with...just using a different name for it. For me, these acts fall under the job of Psychopomp and Priest, so "Spirit Keeper" is now a term I can associate with the role itself. Cheers.


When I first head the term I was equally unfamiliar with it. What was interesting was I was not doing it for human dead at the time but animal dead which was interesting.

In essence, you're referring to caretaking both the transitioning spirit and their families, where necessary. This is a cluegy place of work, but a powerful one that can create tethers between the practitioner and the spirit world. If you're reading this and considering delving into this role, be aware that this kind of work can be incredibly dangerous and damaging to the ones doing this kind of work. Its not the kind of thing that elongates your life, in my experience, but it makes for an all the more sacred role given the inherent sacrifice that's bound up in working with the dead this closely.


It can be very taxing that's for sure. There is a degree of danger that is hard to explain and even harder to demonstrate to people. Can be extremely trying when the deceased insists that they want you to contact a family member but the family member is not ready to hear it.

Anyhow, now that I understand what you're referencing, yes, this is a very Hekatean role to play. I've found that when I do this, it gives me the opportunity to create familial fetish items that connect the living to the dearly departed, and that can give the dead more reason to move on because then they're less worried about losing that connection to their families. In addition to this, there are some times in which the dead can be brought back to reincarnate as a part of the family line, but that generally requires some pretty serious approval and connections On High.

Its not a common thing to do, but it can occur.


I haven't seen the reincarnation aspect to often but I have found that I get pulled into genealogy quite often because of it. In fact I am our families historian and keep the family tree. As such been called upon to aid not only my own family but many other families in tracking that aspect of their heritage and history. The dead can often be pretty vocal in directing you or guiding you in discovering hidden things.

One of my favorite things to do in this role is to hear stories of the deceased, however pleasant or unpleasant. The act of hearing them can be made sacred, and the departed's soul can be bound up in their favorite stories as a means of keeping them alive in the same sense as what was understood of the Egyptian afterlife.


I find for me, especially as a genealogist, that the dead are alive and I have many lives and families I speak to all the time. Not only speak to but am retelling their stories and lives and connecting them to the living.

Interesting, as that's one of the examples Hekate gave me. Specifically, she talked about the use of a physical object or talisman like a birdhouse that could be created and subsequently burned to ashes at the end of a being's life as a means of giving the spirit a healthy vantage point within which they could interact with their loved ones. It does connect several different planes of existence, however, so there's a serious of protective spells and measures that need to be used in order to keep the space within the spirit house sacrosanct.

This all reminds me very heavily of tech I was brought up around, as half of my family is from Japan where spirit houses are regularly used as a means of taking care of the spirits of place. There's a distinct deal of overlap to be had here, however, as this kind of conceptual technology definitely exists elsewhere.


Funny you should mention Nippon (Japan) I lived there for a number of years and was actually married there. Did two tours there in the military and lived in the Northern part of the Island of Honshu in the Amori Prefecture. The Kami Spirits definitely influenced my practice and how I view things from my time being there. You respect the Tatami for it breaks your fall and step.

Parts of my idea's about death and meals for the ancestor's and never leaving your Hashi sticking up comes from that.

Interesting. Do you recall any sort of meaning to the individual number of sides to these triangles? I've only done a bit of research into this, so the geometry of the subject seems to be a bit outside my grasp at the moment.


In truth I don't recall exactly why I choose the 3 or 4 sided figures. At the back of my mind, and as I fell asleep last night the thoughts that went through my mind though are. The 3 sided (4 with bottom) equated to the elements of earth, wind, fire and water with the bottom being water as my primary working element. Inside the structure was the union of all elements and through that union the spirit gained passage to the spirit realm. Near as I recall it was done via releasing of all the components of the physical nature of its shade and material components of its earthly body. With the 4 sided (5 with bottom) it had to do with the directions or winds. That being North wind, East Wind, South Wind, West Wind and the bottom being no wind. Inside was the houses behind the winds or the gateways to the other realms. It sort of tied into the idea of as within so to without, as above so to as below, as before me so to behind me, as to my left so to my right. IF you plot it all out you'll get the idea of plotting a point in space with the final point for leaping to another dimension.

So one basically disintegrated into nothing while the other jumps into another dimension or place.

I've caught myself wondering the same, and I expect it will be a little bit of column A & a little of column B. I expect that my impression and perception will have changed to become aware of the considerations and flow of the area, while the spirits of place will likewise have changed to account for the shift in my awareness. I'm reminded of Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle here, as it most definitely applies to spirit work, as the very act of observing the spirit world changes both the viewer and the content that is viewed.


Yeah I agree. The more the observer changes the more that being observed changes or evolves. Then we wonder which of us is really the intelligent one.

For me as well. Some of the overly flowery wording and the cadence with which its presented doesn't make any sense whatsoever, so I try to enter into this with an interest in understanding what the writer was attempting to convey. Its one part psychology, one part anthropology, and I've found that this mindset serves me well. Especially when coming to understand some of the more abstract concepts.


Sometimes I am reminded that Nostradamus intentionally used crazy words and phrases to hide his revelations and prophecies less he be charged with various things. I think the PGM writers did much of the same thing many times. then there is the misdirection by intent so that those who were not initiated or held the codex wouldn't understand.

This could be, respectively, a "you" thing or a "me" thing, as I was raised Buddhist and thus do have some appreciation of being manifesting as compassionate onlookers, teachers, wrathfully compassionate entities, and so forth. She's never really been wrathful towards me, but there are definitely moments of "mom" becoming a little agitated with her children where troublesome spirits are concerned.

Your allegory of a cat observing a mouse is incredibly fitting and astute, as that's exactly what its felt like in the past.


Not sure it's a "you" or "Me" thing but it could be a cultural thing for certain. I know there are things that I had done in my youth by my grandmother, aunts, etc that people would go crazy over today but for being raised in a Southern Mountain influenced family was normal. So perhaps it's more a matter of how we define and utilize words within our own region and subculture's.

Was sitting here thinking about what my ex-daughter-in-law said about my mother and how she would never anger my mother. She figured if she hurt my son, she figured my mother would tear her apart for hurting her grandson and she face the wrath of hell from her.

I'd be curious to understand why spirits might have some issues with bronze or copper. Perhaps its an affinity thing?


I never quite figured it out. At first I though it might be due to the color. Figure bronze and copper have that golden or reddish gold color to it. That initially made me think of a dark fire but that was the only thing I could come up with.

For whatever reason, I'd never really registered that the Empousa had a bronze leg attached to them, despite having interacted with them in the past (I'm facepalming over here, if that's not evident). On a symbolic level, that essentially means that they're wandering around with a tent peg as a leg, which has a weird kind of tie in to an idea that shows up in Buddhism: stamping one's foot and intoning the letter Hum is a means of scattering energies that are disharmonious or do not belong.


That does sort of tie into the idea of impaling the ground or spearing it. Also ties into the idea of a blade looking at it from that angle, almost a sacrifice without having an actual sacrifice to be impaled.

I'd adapted this tech to utilize a phurba in the work for both binding and constraining, so viewing a Empousa as having the same kind of innate capability places them in the role of being a kind of space-controlling being. Weirdly, that fits with an impression I had of having Empousa at the quarters during a rite with Hekate, though I only saw them emerging from the ground, with their feet buried in the Earth.

I've not found a mythological reference for this, but it sticks out in the mind.


Never really though of having an Empousa at the ritual.
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Re: Hekate & Her Mysteries

Post#37 » Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:15 pm

monsnoleedra wrote:When I first head the term I was equally unfamiliar with it. What was interesting was I was not doing it for human dead at the time but animal dead which was interesting.


Honestly, that's really rather unsurprising (to both of us, I imagine), given the wildly variable nature of nomenclature, especially around what can end up being the same "tech" viewed from different angles. Some of the terminology that gets tossed around is essentially just a different naming convention for what is otherwise a common practice.

For instance, hoodoo v. conjure v. rootwork v. wortcunning....all pretty damned similar, just with their own different cultural lenses. There are parallels found within Japan, Korea, Thailand, Nepal, and India too, but each of them has their own special label and stamp of approval.

For me, what you've described is basically a small part of necromantic practice that focuses largely on acting as a kind of mediumistic bridge between the living and the dead. I don't relate this as a diminishment, either, as I'd rather focus on a clear understanding of the terms. Appreciate you humoring me and explaining, too, as it allows for this ongoing dialogue to continue.

It can be very taxing that's for sure. There is a degree of danger that is hard to explain and even harder to demonstrate to people. Can be extremely trying when the deceased insists that they want you to contact a family member but the family member is not ready to hear it.


Very much so! We, as a culture, have this overly romanticized view of magic and working with spirits of the dead, of demons, of angels, and so forth, and it leaves the public eye with little to no understanding of how this relationship works. To speak plainly, the act of being a bridge for the dead is essentially equivalent to giving your life force over to a spirit so that they can commune with this world.

When that essence is returned to us, we never get all of it back. Some of that energy is used up in the exchange, and we are in a very real way expendable to the spirits we work with, in many cases. There is an exchange to be had, and sometimes that exchange is rooted in a lessening of the length of our lives.

It is for this and other reasons that death's not much of a deterrent, too. I mention that here since it was a point of contention in another thread, not long ago. I also share this as a means of properly underscoring just how sacred this kind of covenenant is, as folks like you and I do this because it needs to be done.

This is one of those things that folks aren't often ready to hear, but its also a part of how the Universe works. Matter and energy are deeply intertwined, just as we are deeply intertwined with our families and the spirits thereof. There are indeed times where the living are not ready or interested in hearing what the dead have to say, and telling someone Truths of this kind isn't often well-received, even if they ask for it.

Getting the dead to recognize what the living is ready for is a part of this vocation, too. An exceedingly important part, in fact.

I haven't seen the reincarnation aspect to often but I have found that I get pulled into genealogy quite often because of it. In fact I am our families historian and keep the family tree. As such been called upon to aid not only my own family but many other families in tracking that aspect of their heritage and history. The dead can often be pretty vocal in directing you or guiding you in discovering hidden things.


An important job, if ever there was one. I don't really get on with most of my family, having long been the black sheep of the family tree, so that's not a role I've inherited. However, mad respect to you for being willing and able to act in this role, as you're essentially a bridge for the dead in a number of ways...not a small thing, to be sure.

The dead are indeed pretty vocal when they want to be. There are times where I'll be awoken with a mission or otherwise intruded-upon in ritual by a spirit saying "oi, I need you to do this!" As such, it really doesn't surprise me any when spirits like Hekate speak up and say a thing or two.

I find for me, especially as a genealogist, that the dead are alive and I have many lives and families I speak to all the time. Not only speak to but am retelling their stories and lives and connecting them to the living.


We're hitting the same note there, to be sure. :)

Funny you should mention Nippon (Japan) I lived there for a number of years and was actually married there. Did two tours there in the military and lived in the Northern part of the Island of Honshu in the Amori Prefecture. The Kami Spirits definitely influenced my practice and how I view things from my time being there. You respect the Tatami for it breaks your fall and step.

Parts of my idea's about death and meals for the ancestor's and never leaving your Hashi sticking up comes from that.


That's an interesting overlap to be sure, as the maternal side of my family is from Japan. Many of those ancestors were Yamabushi, so while not a lot is known about their practices post-Meiji Restoration Era, my ancestors tend to be pretty vocal about telling me how to honor both the dead and the living appropriately.

The Kami of Honshu are incredibly alive, from what I experienced when I was there many years ago. I didn't go as far north as Aomori Prefecture, instead spending more time in Tokyo, Kyoto, and Yamanashi. Its been more then a decade since I was last there, but I remember the spirits of place vividly.

Among them, my time spent at Chiyoda Castle. I dunno if you've ever been, but I still remember vividly how incredibly powerful the spirits of place were at Edo. The memory that sticks out most in my mind was the deep thrumb I felt as I walked up to the swords stored and displayed there...

At that time, I ran into a Noppera-bo outside of Chiyoda. That's something I will never forget, as this thing was as manifest as the people around it.

In truth I don't recall exactly why I choose the 3 or 4 sided figures. At the back of my mind, and as I fell asleep last night the thoughts that went through my mind though are. The 3 sided (4 with bottom) equated to the elements of earth, wind, fire and water with the bottom being water as my primary working element. Inside the structure was the union of all elements and through that union the spirit gained passage to the spirit realm. Near as I recall it was done via releasing of all the components of the physical nature of its shade and material components of its earthly body. With the 4 sided (5 with bottom) it had to do with the directions or winds. That being North wind, East Wind, South Wind, West Wind and the bottom being no wind. Inside was the houses behind the winds or the gateways to the other realms. It sort of tied into the idea of as within so to without, as above so to as below, as before me so to behind me, as to my left so to my right. IF you plot it all out you'll get the idea of plotting a point in space with the final point for leaping to another dimension.

So one basically disintegrated into nothing while the other jumps into another dimension or place.


Thank you for writing this out. There's definitely some overlap to what I've seen of my work with Hekate, as she's long stressed the permutability of these shapes. One blends into the other in an almost seamless way, but the actual act of transition is the part that's struck me as being sacred. This, too, seems to tie into the liminality of the work with her, and there's totally this "warping" thing that seems to occur, where I notice myself going from one space to another without actually moving anything other than my mind.

She's mentioned, too, that there's a parallel between the literal inclusion of the rivers and winds in her space and the transportation effect that occurs when one uses them correctly. This part is firmly entrenched in this concept of the "above" being the same as what is "below" and "within" = "without". There's this quantum entanglement-like element these practices that have everything to do with the practices themselves.

Speaking of, that brings me an idea for the strophalos that we've been discussing: what if the swirling motion is directly related TO this transitionary element. One of the major stresses Hekate's had for me was about mirroring one element with another as a means of bringing things into balance. If the strophalos follows the same pattern, then the rotation is a part of that harmony.

Yeah I agree. The more the observer changes the more that being observed changes or evolves. Then we wonder which of us is really the intelligent one.


We are thinking the same thing...how very appropriate for this conversation. The act of changing along these lines is a kind of compassionate elevation not unlike what one achieves through shared meditation. Its a kind of forced growth projected into the universe, in a way, which brings me around to the idea that consciousness is where the real magic is at.

This laser-like awareness brings change, which is a very tantric concept if ever there was one.

Sometimes I am reminded that Nostradamus intentionally used crazy words and phrases to hide his revelations and prophecies less he be charged with various things. I think the PGM writers did much of the same thing many times. then there is the misdirection by intent so that those who were not initiated or held the codex wouldn't understand.


Yep, same as Crowley, and a lot of times that confusion IS a part of the magic that cannot be removed lest the words themselves become meaningless. Confusion can be a sacred thing, especially when it forces you to explore the world more deeply.

I was reminded of this over the past weekend, as my time spent in a local forest led to my discovering a kind of rogue enchantment that didn't belong. I was confused on how I would find something like that in a forest of over 5200 acres in size, yet I was ultimately just led to the bloody thing. It wound up being 150 feet off the path, but I was essentially dragged over to it while trying to figure out how to locate the thing.

Seems to me that this occurs within the PGM too, and that's not something to be ignored. Rather, it is to be embraced. I'm reminded of the quote "The thing about smart people is that they seem like crazy people to dumb people.", and it certainly seems to apply...there are times where we are genuinely incapable of understanding what someone else is on about until we've become educated enough to have the eyes to see and ears to hear. Otherwise, it all becomes a moot frickin' point and time's been a-wasted by all in attendance.

I like to recognize this in an active way, as doing so allows me to more adequately perceive what's going on and understand the Powers That Be.

Not sure it's a "you" or "Me" thing but it could be a cultural thing for certain. I know there are things that I had done in my youth by my grandmother, aunts, etc that people would go crazy over today but for being raised in a Southern Mountain influenced family was normal. So perhaps it's more a matter of how we define and utilize words within our own region and subculture's.

Was sitting here thinking about what my ex-daughter-in-law said about my mother and how she would never anger my mother. She figured if she hurt my son, she figured my mother would tear her apart for hurting her grandson and she face the wrath of hell from her.


I heartily agree, as there's a certain pattern of development to be had in any culture under the sun. That culture we're raised in sets the stage for what is our "normal", and by extension what is "abnormal" or "other". This awareness that your mother, your ex-daughter-in-law's grandmother-in-law would tear her a new one likely enforced an awareness of a certain present matriarchy that she had to live up to while she was a part of your family with your son.

I hope, by extension, that she learned to channel some of that ferocity in a helpful and healthy way, as its a pertinent lesson. I frequently say that I have no mother, as my own biological mother wasn't much of one. She didn't earn my respect, and I carry no traditions over from her into my daily life.

Instead, "mother" to me was my grandmother and Kali, who both taught me to honor my ancestors, do the right thing, and engage in a correct mindset when interfacing with the world. My biological grandmother is one of the reasons behind Japan being a sacred space for me, as that's where she grew up. Its where memory, both good and bad, was developed, and its where a great many of my ancestors now rest.

With this respect, however, comes a love of things that are, to the Western world, a bit strange. I find myself fascinated by and very much respectful of deities and beings that most Western-minded individuals would fear. Its pretty hard to be afraid of Satan when you're already well accustomed to beings like Fujin-sama & Raijin-sama, as they're ferocious beings unto themselves.

Not all beings are going to wind up acting like Ojizo-sama. ;)

I never quite figured it out. At first I though it might be due to the color. Figure bronze and copper have that golden or reddish gold color to it. That initially made me think of a dark fire but that was the only thing I could come up with.


Could be, as there's definitely an Eastern association with Red being lucky, but also with it being kind of fierce in its way. Copper is commonly associated with Venus, and in turn with passion. Passion can be destructive, at points, so perhaps that could be directly related to the sense of uneasiness? I'd be quite curious to hear of the reasons for concern from the spirits themselves, as this, I imagine, could be an important understanding to come to.

That does sort of tie into the idea of impaling the ground or spearing it. Also ties into the idea of a blade looking at it from that angle, almost a sacrifice without having an actual sacrifice to be impaled.


That's my thinking as well, especially since the act of impaling the ground has long been used as a means of sanctifying and claiming a space. I mean, on some primordial level, the act of pulling out a sword or dagger in sticking into the earth is a means of readying it for use. It is, after all, within arm's reach at that point, and there's no need to fuddle with a sheath to get it ready for doing harm to another at that juncture.

Never really though of having an Empousa at the ritual.


Yeah, I didn't invite them. They just kind of showed up?

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Re: Hekate & Her Mysteries

Post#38 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:32 am

Wanderer wrote: Honestly, that's really rather unsurprising (to both of us, I imagine), given the wildly variable nature of nomenclature, especially around what can end up being the same "tech" viewed from different angles. Some of the terminology that gets tossed around is essentially just a different naming convention for what is otherwise a common practice.


The terminology definitely causes some issues at times though. Were talking basically about the same things but it takes us some time to figure out that were talking about the same things. End up looking like cats or dogs chasing our collective tails as we go round and round in the interum.

For me, what you've described is basically a small part of necromantic practice that focuses largely on acting as a kind of mediumistic bridge between the living and the dead. I don't relate this as a diminishment, either, as I'd rather focus on a clear understanding of the terms. Appreciate you humoring me and explaining, too, as it allows for this ongoing dialogue to continue.


Personally I find it worth the time to take a few minutes and define terms and explain things. Makes it so much easier to talk and discuss things. It's already difficult enough at times to work between the spirit world and the living as it is.

Very much so! We, as a culture, have this overly romanticized view of magic and working with spirits of the dead, of demons, of angels, and so forth, and it leaves the public eye with little to no understanding of how this relationship works. To speak plainly, the act of being a bridge for the dead is essentially equivalent to giving your life force over to a spirit so that they can commune with this world.

When that essence is returned to us, we never get all of it back. Some of that energy is used up in the exchange, and we are in a very real way expendable to the spirits we work with, in many cases. There is an exchange to be had, and sometimes that exchange is rooted in a lessening of the length of our lives.


I think for many on the shamanic side of things it's one of the reason's that dying is a preq to the pathway. In that capacity it serves two purposes. One it places us in the land of the dead and aligns us with the spirit world from the get go. But it serves another purpose that I think many do not realize, it leaves us with a bit of death energy in us. In that capacity when we deal with the dead and they touch us they do not exchange or take anything from us. There was already a taking of life force from us when we died and it's what placed us in two worlds and allows us to reside there in some capacity.

Perhaps just those I personally know but quite a few of the followers of Hekate I am familiar with who also have Shamanic influences also died. When and how they died varies with each of us but each of us did die. 1 Other is loosely connected to Hekate didn't die herself but is tied to death through suicide of a sibling. So death is still closely connected to her.

It is for this and other reasons that death's not much of a deterrent, too. I mention that here since it was a point of contention in another thread, not long ago. I also share this as a means of properly underscoring just how sacred this kind of covenenant is, as folks like you and I do this because it needs to be done.


I do agree that in general most people do not realize just how demanding and sacred the psychopomp role is. What always gets me is that the functionality of the role can start long before death actually arrives and continue long after death has actually claimed the physical body. It can be not only preparation of the person who is going to die but also those who will be touched by the actual death.

This is one of those things that folks aren't often ready to hear, but its also a part of how the Universe works. Matter and energy are deeply intertwined, just as we are deeply intertwined with our families and the spirits thereof. There are indeed times where the living are not ready or interested in hearing what the dead have to say, and telling someone Truths of this kind isn't often well-received, even if they ask for it.

Getting the dead to recognize what the living is ready for is a part of this vocation, too. An exceedingly important part, in fact.


I hate having to deal with the issue when the dead are not ready to let go or the living are not ready to let go. People on pagan / occult sites routinely seem to speak about silver threads and cutting them but never seem to truly recognize those threads also cross the boundaries of life and death. A spirit can be earthbound via a thread that is attached to a person or an object. Yet people refuse to acknowledge those connections in their pain or mourning periods much less willing to speak about them.

That's an interesting overlap to be sure, as the maternal side of my family is from Japan. Many of those ancestors were Yamabushi, so while not a lot is known about their practices post-Meiji Restoration Era, my ancestors tend to be pretty vocal about telling me how to honor both the dead and the living appropriately.

The Kami of Honshu are incredibly alive, from what I experienced when I was there many years ago. I didn't go as far north as Aomori Prefecture, instead spending more time in Tokyo, Kyoto, and Yamanashi. Its been more then a decade since I was last there, but I remember the spirits of place vividly.

Among them, my time spent at Chiyoda Castle. I dunno if you've ever been, but I still remember vividly how incredibly powerful the spirits of place were at Edo. The memory that sticks out most in my mind was the deep thrumb I felt as I walked up to the swords stored and displayed there...

At that time, I ran into a Noppera-bo outside of Chiyoda. That's something I will never forget, as this thing was as manifest as the people around it.


The last time I was in Japan was in 1991 so it's been some time. I was stationed in Northern Japan but did get down to the Kanto Plains area a few times to visit Tokyo or go to sea from Yokosuka. Definitely two different types of area's. Tokyo I don't remember the land spirits actually as the energy of the city sort of drowned them out. The same at Yokosuka, they seemed sort of drowned out and buried in the back ground with all the rush and electricity yet when you got down near the water it was a bit different. Didn't really have time to explore outside of the cities though so can't say how the countryside would have felt. Just know it was very different than the more rural communities and mountainous area's I was used to in Northern Japan.


Thank you for writing this out. There's definitely some overlap to what I've seen of my work with Hekate, as she's long stressed the permutability of these shapes. One blends into the other in an almost seamless way, but the actual act of transition is the part that's struck me as being sacred. This, too, seems to tie into the liminality of the work with her, and there's totally this "warping" thing that seems to occur, where I notice myself going from one space to another without actually moving anything other than my mind.


Perhaps just me but I find I like to work with her in fog, mists, smoke or clouds. There are edges of sorts but they are constantly shifting in the concept of boundaries and edges. Even the notion of reality is in constant flux as it is both real and illusion at the same time. There are seams yet it is also seamless at the same time.

S
he's mentioned, too, that there's a parallel between the literal inclusion of the rivers and winds in her space and the transportation effect that occurs when one uses them correctly. This part is firmly entrenched in this concept of the "above" being the same as what is "below" and "within" = "without". There's this quantum entanglement-like element these practices that have everything to do with the practices themselves.


When I work with her using smoke, mist, clouds, fog there is always the idea of rivers, winds, movement, eddies, etc that is displayed before my eyes, upon my skin, even upon my senses. Yet it is always both factual and illusion at the same time for it is both below and above. It is within and without all at the same time depending upon how I observe it and move myself and my observation point. The illusion also changes depending upon the density of the material I am observing or working through for it is constantly changing as well.

Speaking of, that brings me an idea for the strophalos that we've been discussing: what if the swirling motion is directly related TO this transitionary element. One of the major stresses Hekate's had for me was about mirroring one element with another as a means of bringing things into balance. If the strophalos follows the same pattern, then the rotation is a part of that harmony.


When I am in the fog, mist, smoke, cloud I am at times think I am the circular point in the strophalos and am working about the strophalos. The only solid point within the working system is me and the only point of reference is me for all other points of reference change depending upon my vantage point and the movements of the currents within the body (element) revolving about me. Change the element (mist, fog, smoke, cloud) and the results will change. Add an additional information point such as a breaking sea upon rocks in the background mist and a new source is added.

Yep, same as Crowley, and a lot of times that confusion IS a part of the magic that cannot be removed lest the words themselves become meaningless. Confusion can be a sacred thing, especially when it forces you to explore the world more deeply.

I was reminded of this over the past weekend, as my time spent in a local forest led to my discovering a kind of rogue enchantment that didn't belong. I was confused on how I would find something like that in a forest of over 5200 acres in size, yet I was ultimately just led to the bloody thing. It wound up being 150 feet off the path, but I was essentially dragged over to it while trying to figure out how to locate the thing.

Seems to me that this occurs within the PGM too, and that's not something to be ignored. Rather, it is to be embraced. I'm reminded of the quote "The thing about smart people is that they seem like crazy people to dumb people.", and it certainly seems to apply...there are times where we are genuinely incapable of understanding what someone else is on about until we've become educated enough to have the eyes to see and ears to hear. Otherwise, it all becomes a moot frickin' point and time's been a-wasted by all in attendance.

I like to recognize this in an active way, as doing so allows me to more adequately perceive what's going on and understand the Powers That Be.


That point where the words get in the way until we forget what the words mean and learn what they mean anew or see them in a new light. I've had that happen before where I've been told I used to be dumb but now I'm smart or I used to be blind but now I finally learnt how to see correctly. Ironically enough the person whose the one telling you that might be the same person a few days or months before you though was crazy or dumb themselves.

Could be, as there's definitely an Eastern association with Red being lucky, but also with it being kind of fierce in its way. Copper is commonly associated with Venus, and in turn with passion. Passion can be destructive, at points, so perhaps that could be directly related to the sense of uneasiness? I'd be quite curious to hear of the reasons for concern from the spirits themselves, as this, I imagine, could be an important understanding to come to.


Never have gotten a reason as to why the issue with the copper / brass / bronze color. Just know the few times I tried it wasn't liked and there was a sense of uneasiness so I haven't tried since.

That's my thinking as well, especially since the act of impaling the ground has long been used as a means of sanctifying and claiming a space. I mean, on some primordial level, the act of pulling out a sword or dagger in sticking into the earth is a means of readying it for use. It is, after all, within arm's reach at that point, and there's no need to fuddle with a sheath to get it ready for doing harm to another at that juncture.


It's been at the back of my mind for a while now but there is another possibility here. There is an older idea when dealing with any edged weapon, that is once pulled it is not supposed to be returned to the sheath without it tasting blood less it become a back biter weapon. If it is returned to the sheath without blood, even it's owner's blood it is never to be trusted again and will even turn upon it's owner and fail and try to take its owners blood. It was one of the reasons some sword makers used to take blood from whomever would own the sword and mix their blood into the sword blades creation so the blade would never turn on the owner.

Burying the blade into the earth was seen as sheathing the blade but also preventing it from drawing the blood of the owner. It wasn't just sanctifying the ground by claiming the ground. Figure normally a trusted blade would be held butt to the ground like a spear but if you put the blade into the ground then the blade wasn't trusted.

A blade put to the ground is a defeated weapon with the exception of a blade driven into stone.
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Re: Hekate & Her Mysteries

Post#39 » Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:00 pm

monsnoleedra wrote:The terminology definitely causes some issues at times though. Were talking basically about the same things but it takes us some time to figure out that were talking about the same things. End up looking like cats or dogs chasing our collective tails as we go round and round in the interum.


I agree, and that's part of what makes discussing meta ideas like shamanism and magical practices so difficult, at least at first. A good chunk of the dialogue must, out of necessity, revolve around these different words and references that we all seem to understand on some level. Once we determine what [x] and [y] mean, we can discuss them and the associated practices.

Until that core understanding is had, however, its essentially a different ballgame. Definitely worth defining those terms as a part of coming to grips with what's actually being discussed.

I think for many on the shamanic side of things it's one of the reason's that dying is a preq to the pathway. In that capacity it serves two purposes. One it places us in the land of the dead and aligns us with the spirit world from the get go. But it serves another purpose that I think many do not realize, it leaves us with a bit of death energy in us. In that capacity when we deal with the dead and they touch us they do not exchange or take anything from us. There was already a taking of life force from us when we died and it's what placed us in two worlds and allows us to reside there in some capacity.

Perhaps just those I personally know but quite a few of the followers of Hekate I am familiar with who also have Shamanic influences also died. When and how they died varies with each of us but each of us did die. 1 Other is loosely connected to Hekate didn't die herself but is tied to death through suicide of a sibling. So death is still closely connected to her.


Good chance. I don't really consider myself to be a shaman per se, but there are elements of that in my practices. My own near death experiences and like brushes with Death as both a fact of life and entity have drastically changed the way I interact with the world. It seems to go with the territory, as nothing seems to 'force' spiritual development quite so readily as that.

When this has occurred as a part of your existence, the life force exchange still happens, but it is not as profound. It seems that some part of us, in the act of dying or experiencing that brush with death, is left in that world and acts as a tether for us.

In this, as a result your life doesn't really remain your own, but it has the perk of allowing this existence to be a transformative one. Its a means of forcing your own essence to progress in its development, so I'm not at all surprised by this connection being present.

Suicide is another one of those moments that just changes things in an irrevocable way, both for the person committing the act and anyone near enough to the person in who did so. I experienced a brush with this when a dear friend committed suicide over spring break when I was in my teens, and I returned to school having heard the day prior that M was no longer with us.

Her corpse was found hanging in her closet, and that was one of my many brushes with death through others. Its a traumatic thing that shocks the mind and soul into being more present in the spirit world, especially as one tries to process the pain and the questions around whether or not something else could be done to prevent that departure from this world.

I do agree that in general most people do not realize just how demanding and sacred the psychopomp role is. What always gets me is that the functionality of the role can start long before death actually arrives and continue long after death has actually claimed the physical body. It can be not only preparation of the person who is going to die but also those who will be touched by the actual death.


Very much so. There's a sense of "nearness" that crops up when someone gets close to that point in their lives. I hadn't really noticed it for a long time, as I was too focused on the actual death itself. It was when my grandfather entered into his end-of-life phase that I began to more clearly sense that shadow from beyond the grave, and walking him through to the end from both near and afar became a kind of initiation into that process of preparing others for their departure.

Hekate had much to do with this, and this was, for me, an instance of using my life expereinces to reach out and teach me.

I hate having to deal with the issue when the dead are not ready to let go or the living are not ready to let go. People on pagan / occult sites routinely seem to speak about silver threads and cutting them but never seem to truly recognize those threads also cross the boundaries of life and death. A spirit can be earthbound via a thread that is attached to a person or an object. Yet people refuse to acknowledge those connections in their pain or mourning periods much less willing to speak about them.


Very well said, and I concur! Dealing with the dead that don't want to go into that realm is a pain in the arse, as they always want to hang around and have their messages conveyed and their perceived needs met. Usually, they don't care about what that will do to the living, and I've seen instances where the dead will increase the pain of the living to get special treatment and the like.

This isn't helped by death and mourning being a bit taboo in Western society. We've essentially lost a lot of that sensitivity and care, so folks don't have much of a voice when grieving.

The last time I was in Japan was in 1991 so it's been some time. I was stationed in Northern Japan but did get down to the Kanto Plains area a few times to visit Tokyo or go to sea from Yokosuka. Definitely two different types of area's. Tokyo I don't remember the land spirits actually as the energy of the city sort of drowned them out. The same at Yokosuka, they seemed sort of drowned out and buried in the back ground with all the rush and electricity yet when you got down near the water it was a bit different. Didn't really have time to explore outside of the cities though so can't say how the countryside would have felt. Just know it was very different than the more rural communities and mountainous area's I was used to in Northern Japan.


I experienced the same, and I found that the electricity and energy of place created new spirits that would shock & awe their way into the world stage, creating even more attention for themselves while leaving the more naturally-occurring spirits behind. These surpassed entities would, when they could, go elsewhere, towards the bodies of water and otherwise unmolested spaces, but when they could not do so, they'd take on different forms that were more grotesque in their manifestations to get noticed.

I saw this some in Seattle, San Francisco, Paris, and Tokyo, but I noticed it the most in Tokyo. Where it was kind of a background thing in the aforementioned places, in Tokyo it was unavoidably obvious. Its odd to me, but makes some sense, as even spirits need to evolve to survive.

Perhaps just me but I find I like to work with her in fog, mists, smoke or clouds. There are edges of sorts but they are constantly shifting in the concept of boundaries and edges. Even the notion of reality is in constant flux as it is both real and illusion at the same time. There are seams yet it is also seamless at the same time.


I've noticed the same, and it doesn't seem to matter much if this smoke or fog is manmade or not...she still makes herself manifest, but there's a greater potency in both ritual smoke made with intention and that which is created naturally. Fog machines and the like just don't have as much of that potency to them.

Some of this does indeed seem rooted in the illusion and the understanding that it is an illusion. This centrality of the experience does seem to be a part of the process, too, as we are all aspects of the World Tree and points of its manifestation. Recognizing these roots and then allowing our vision and understanding to elongate themselves to watch as the Trees do seems to be a part of this process of connecting and understanding more deeply.

There's a certain timelessness to all of this in which the passage of time can only be readily understood through natural events occuring in the tree canopies and upon the shorelines. There are times, too, that she'll essentially hijack my sight and use that capacity to see to show me natural phenomenon as parallels to what occurs in the spirit world...that part is confusing to explain, though, so I hope its clear here.

Here, the words are most definitely in the way, but that "works" in this context given the nature of this conversation.

That point where the words get in the way until we forget what the words mean and learn what they mean anew or see them in a new light. I've had that happen before where I've been told I used to be dumb but now I'm smart or I used to be blind but now I finally learnt how to see correctly. Ironically enough the person whose the one telling you that might be the same person a few days or months before you though was crazy or dumb themselves.


Ooooh yeah. You cannot hear if you don't have the ears to do so, you cannot see if you do not have the eyes to do so, and you cannot speak correctly if you lack the tongue for it. There's a very physical aspect of this internal transformation that occurs, as that transformation is reflected onto the base matter that makes us all.

Its beautifully esoteric, but makes relating some of these things to anyone other than those with such experiences beyond difficult.

It's been at the back of my mind for a while now but there is another possibility here. There is an older idea when dealing with any edged weapon, that is once pulled it is not supposed to be returned to the sheath without it tasting blood less it become a back biter weapon. If it is returned to the sheath without blood, even it's owner's blood it is never to be trusted again and will even turn upon it's owner and fail and try to take its owners blood. It was one of the reasons some sword makers used to take blood from whomever would own the sword and mix their blood into the sword blades creation so the blade would never turn on the owner.

Burying the blade into the earth was seen as sheathing the blade but also preventing it from drawing the blood of the owner. It wasn't just sanctifying the ground by claiming the ground. Figure normally a trusted blade would be held butt to the ground like a spear but if you put the blade into the ground then the blade wasn't trusted.

A blade put to the ground is a defeated weapon with the exception of a blade driven into stone.


I've heard that belief before, and the one who told me about it had said that he learned it in Turkey. I don't feel the same way or practice this, but the friend I heard this from was very sincere in his practice and I left him to it. It never resonated with me, but I do tend to have a notable affinity with sharp things.

I started sharpening knives and tools at the age of five, so that might have something to do with it. If a knife had to taste blood every time it came out to be sharpened, there'd be no untouched flesh on my body!

Its an interesting consideration, at any rate.

The concept of a blade being buried into the earth as a means of sheathing it is an interesting one. Whenever I've stuck a blade into the earth tip down, it was always as a means of claiming space, as that's come rather naturally to me. Its never been about trust or its lack, though I can see why one might develop such a point of view even if I don't share it myself.

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Re: Hekate & Her Mysteries

Post#40 » Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:13 am

Wanderer wrote: I've heard that belief before, and the one who told me about it had said that he learned it in Turkey. I don't feel the same way or practice this, but the friend I heard this from was very sincere in his practice and I left him to it. It never resonated with me, but I do tend to have a notable affinity with sharp things.

I started sharpening knives and tools at the age of five, so that might have something to do with it. If a knife had to taste blood every time it came out to be sharpened, there'd be no untouched flesh on my body!

Its an interesting consideration, at any rate.

The concept of a blade being buried into the earth as a means of sheathing it is an interesting one. Whenever I've stuck a blade into the earth tip down, it was always as a means of claiming space, as that's come rather naturally to me. Its never been about trust or its lack, though I can see why one might develop such a point of view even if I don't share it myself.


Once again I had the urge to shift the order around a bit so hopefully this will not change things to much.

I first got the idea about back biter blades and first blooding from forging and I think the Orient to be honest. It pretty much had to do with the first time the person as an owner of the blade pulled it from its sheath. Not specifically every time it was pulled from a sheath that it had to be blooded. Then there was the idea of a blade potentially being ensouled during creation so in order for it to know who it's owner was it would be blooded during creation with it's owners blood so the blade would never gain a taste for it's owners blood or turn against him / her.

I can see sticking a blade into the earth though as that also ties into the idea of claiming but it also to a degree ties into the idea of both breaking the dragon's back but also of breaking both dragon lines or fairy lines. Both of those idea's sort of loosely tie into the notion of breaking an ant line where you draw your finger across the path ants make which causes them to loose their way and become confused and loose their pathway / energy lines. But in the concept of ley lines it also breaks the energy flow. Potentially even diverting or ending / truncating the flow point if the blade or spike is left in the earth. Your ability to show power over such "fields" would in a way demonstrate authority and control over both the land and it's energy, thereby claiming it before all things. Sort of the idea of the King and the Land are one, so therefor you are now the King and ruler.


I agree, and that's part of what makes discussing meta ideas like shamanism and magical practices so difficult, at least at first. A good chunk of the dialogue must, out of necessity, revolve around these different words and references that we all seem to understand on some level. Once we determine what [x] and [y] mean, we can discuss them and the associated practices.

Until that core understanding is had, however, its essentially a different ballgame. Definitely worth defining those terms as a part of coming to grips with what's actually being discussed.


I moved the other part above this as I think they sort of tie together. Magic many times is about demonstration of both force and ability. Yet more importantly is presenting it in such a way that it is understood and comprehended by those who observe it and can convey what they have seen or witnessed.

In this Hekate creates some situations that are both enlightening but also creates some situations that are about as clear as mud. Even among her own practitioners I've found that she tends to give us terms, phrases and images that often conflict or down right contradict each other on the surface. Yet I wonder at times is it the image that is conflicting or is it the words that we use that cause the confliction or is it how we see the image vs how we think we see them.


Good chance. I don't really consider myself to be a shaman per se, but there are elements of that in my practices. My own near death experiences and like brushes with Death as both a fact of life and entity have drastically changed the way I interact with the world. It seems to go with the territory, as nothing seems to 'force' spiritual development quite so readily as that.


It's funny but I resisted the idea of both death and being any sort of shamanic practitioner for years. but the more I resisted the more it got pushed into my face. What's interesting though is that I do not like the title Shaman or shamanic practitioner but I find if I do not use it people tend to put it on me none the less. So I settle for Shamanic Practitioner. It's the same as being a Priest for Hekate, I resist that one as well. Heck even have asked her about it. She tells me I do not want you in that capacity so do not call you for that. Have friends though that keep pushing me to pursue it and can't understand why I do not. But can't seem to grasp that it is not my path though I do follow some of it's tenants.

When this has occurred as a part of your existence, the life force exchange still happens, but it is not as profound. It seems that some part of us, in the act of dying or experiencing that brush with death, is left in that world and acts as a tether for us.


Yep. We become what I refer to as a spoke runner or rider. An anchor holds us in both worlds at the same time, though it doesn't hold us in the same place but slides along. So we never know quite where the other ends lies in the other world only that it is there, like an open circuit waiting to be connected and opened when needed.

In this, as a result your life doesn't really remain your own, but it has the perk of allowing this existence to be a transformative one. Its a means of forcing your own essence to progress in its development, so I'm not at all surprised by this connection being present.


Unfortunately it also has the negative at times of leaving you with this sensation of wishing you could go home for the final time. Longing for that home you wait to return to but can't quite remember all the time as it is sort of foggy at the same time.

Very much so. There's a sense of "nearness" that crops up when someone gets close to that point in their lives. I hadn't really noticed it for a long time, as I was too focused on the actual death itself. It was when my grandfather entered into his end-of-life phase that I began to more clearly sense that shadow from beyond the grave, and walking him through to the end from both near and afar became a kind of initiation into that process of preparing others for their departure.

Hekate had much to do with this, and this was, for me, an instance of using my life expereinces to reach out and teach me.


I had that same lesson with my Grandfather from a long distance revelation. That was one of my first exposures to the idea of the Kiss of Passing / Good bye.


I experienced the same, and I found that the electricity and energy of place created new spirits that would shock & awe their way into the world stage, creating even more attention for themselves while leaving the more naturally-occurring spirits behind. These surpassed entities would, when they could, go elsewhere, towards the bodies of water and otherwise unmolested spaces, but when they could not do so, they'd take on different forms that were more grotesque in their manifestations to get noticed.

I saw this some in Seattle, San Francisco, Paris, and Tokyo, but I noticed it the most in Tokyo. Where it was kind of a background thing in the aforementioned places, in Tokyo it was unavoidably obvious. Its odd to me, but makes some sense, as even spirits need to evolve to survive.


I didn't really notice new spirits so much as I noticed corrupted or mutated spirits. In the cities it's worse, almost as if the electricity and concrete just bends and deforms their bodies as they are separated from the natural elements. Yes electric is natural, but it's all bent and twisted in the neon signs and power grid. It doesn't disapate into the earth it runs on rails or down wires and cracks in the air. Even the energy in the water doesn't get transferred into the land it's pushed through drains and pipes until maybe it's released into infested waterways or the sea / ocean where it gets absorbed into the water. There it tries to take it's natural shape back but it takes time to recover if it ever does. But those that are hung in the city never do and become more and more deformed and corrupted, trapped.

Not to say all of them for some of them do adapt to the environment and actually do thrive. But they are the exception vice the rule. But they are more like rodents than the larger wild life that once inhabited the area.

I've noticed the same, and it doesn't seem to matter much if this smoke or fog is manmade or not...she still makes herself manifest, but there's a greater potency in both ritual smoke made with intention and that which is created naturally. Fog machines and the like just don't have as much of that potency to them.


Perhaps just my experience but I've found she prefers natural productions than manmade. A good mist or fogbank or smoke from a fire will produce where a fog machine does nothing. But then I admit I live in an area where there really is no reason you shouldn't be making a real fire or using a actual misty rain or morning / evening fog.

Some of this does indeed seem rooted in the illusion and the understanding that it is an illusion. This centrality of the experience does seem to be a part of the process, too, as we are all aspects of the World Tree and points of its manifestation. Recognizing these roots and then allowing our vision and understanding to elongate themselves to watch as the Trees do seems to be a part of this process of connecting and understanding more deeply.


I think one of the things Hekate pushes home, for me anyway, is that she is the mistress of liminal spaces. Not just for the home but also the forest and field, civilization and uncivilized, night & day, clear & cloudy, etc. SO when I sit and look out or stand outside and look up the mountain and the mist or fog is hanging on the mountain and the tree's are like silhouette's and barely there its all illusions. You have to look but at the same time you can't really trust you eyes for what you see might not be what is really there.
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