Why Do We Command the Entities/Spirits in NAP?

The methods and techniques outlined in The Miracle of New Avatar Power by Geof Gray-Cobb
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summerland
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Re: Why Do We Command the Entities/Spirits in NAP?

Post#11 » Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:18 am

Slater wrote:
summerland wrote:Slater, Have you tried that approach with Elubatel? Just would like some insight on it. Greatly appreciated.


I haven't worked with Elubatel. He is pretty high up there so I'd at the very least be respectful. I think if I were to work with him as of this moment, I'd be likely to go with request rather than command. Like i said...Gray-Cobb changed his stance on the language later in life.

That said...others have been told by an angel not to say "please" when asking of them...that it was too close to pleading and bowing to them...something reserved for the Divine. (that may or may not be a clue as to the filter or aspect of the spirit presented)

I do think that relationship of sorts is really where it's at with some spirits. Not all.
I certainly don't "demand" an angel's presence in my normal full evocations.

Slater, I tried your approach saying" request" some days ago. Didnt work, Although I felt his present and saw him standing in front of me just looking at me like whatever " you got to do better than that" Im going to have to come up with a more diplomatic approach. Any ideas?
"Ni neart go cur le cheile "

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toothache
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Re: Why Do We Command the Entities/Spirits in NAP?

Post#12 » Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:42 am

I also tried the request instead of command, didn't seem to work as well as when I said it from the book verbatim. Usually I see results pretty quickly. I'll keep trying it with request though, just to give it a chance. :) Interesting convo!

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summerland
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Re: Why Do We Command the Entities/Spirits in NAP?

Post#13 » Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:39 pm

toothache wrote:I also tried the request instead of command, didn't seem to work as well as when I said it from the book verbatim. Usually I see results pretty quickly. I'll keep trying it with request though, just to give it a chance. :) Interesting convo!

Yes Elubatel is a picky one. I feel like kid being sent to the corner. I know the book doesnt state about the moon phases and time of day with rituals...But im beginning to think there is truth in that. Other spells, rituals Ive done on moon phases like banishing on waning moon etc.... before, Makes me wander if NAP isnt the same.(sorry if this went off topic)
"Ni neart go cur le cheile "

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mrblack
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Re: Why Do We Command the Entities/Spirits in NAP?

Post#14 » Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:06 pm

summerland wrote:
toothache wrote:I also tried the request instead of command, didn't seem to work as well as when I said it from the book verbatim. Usually I see results pretty quickly. I'll keep trying it with request though, just to give it a chance. :) Interesting convo!

Yes Elubatel is a picky one. I feel like kid being sent to the corner. I know the book doesnt state about the moon phases and time of day with rituals...But im beginning to think there is truth in that. Other spells, rituals Ive done on moon phases like banishing on waning moon etc.... before, Makes me wander if NAP isnt the same.(sorry if this went off topic)


Usage of timing is a very efficient way to do your workings, "bang for your buck" so to say.
I tend to follow a more natural approach to following my timings though......

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summerland
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Re: Why Do We Command the Entities/Spirits in NAP?

Post#15 » Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:10 pm

mrblack wrote:
summerland wrote:
toothache wrote:I also tried the request instead of command, didn't seem to work as well as when I said it from the book verbatim. Usually I see results pretty quickly. I'll keep trying it with request though, just to give it a chance. :) Interesting convo!

Yes Elubatel is a picky one. I feel like kid being sent to the corner. I know the book doesnt state about the moon phases and time of day with rituals...But im beginning to think there is truth in that. Other spells, rituals Ive done on moon phases like banishing on waning moon etc.... before, Makes me wander if NAP isnt the same.(sorry if this went off topic)


Usage of timing is a very efficient way to do your workings, "bang for your buck" so to say.
I tend to follow a more natural approach to following my timings though......

Thank you Mr. Black Much appreciated for the insight. :Thank You
"Ni neart go cur le cheile "

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summerland
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Re: Why Do We Command the Entities/Spirits in NAP?

Post#16 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:46 pm

Well... I tried the words "respectfully command" Ill see how that goes. I tried the word command then respectfully, neither have worked. so damn if I do and damn If I dont. His present was very strong I felt two hands cupped to my temples, it was just.... strange feeling. I had trouble with the come back it was like "im not going to let you go yet" I felt like the gravity just pulling me in the chair and energy swirling around me. I notice when I did the Born less 3 times(because I read it on one of the forums) The third time I went to recite it I instantly felt a spark kick in. After my rituals the room looked brighter. Hopefully this works if not ill try a different method. I did sleep very peacefully. No weird dreams.
"Ni neart go cur le cheile "

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Slater
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Re: Why Do We Command the Entities/Spirits in NAP?

Post#17 » Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:23 am

Yeah I have to report back and say that "request" seems to be not firing the same force of will as the word "command" does with the NAP. Its deeper than that though.

In this case, the wording is for us, not the spirits. Lets face it...even in the long winded 4 page, no punctuation Renaissance Solomonic orations, it's about the magician not the spirit. Inflaming himself with prayer etc

Generally speaking, anthropomorphizing the spirits is a mistake...that goes for what we think they may or may not feel about us, how they may or may not be "offended" by our wording etc. Honestly, I don't think angels give a shit about us...I don't think they can. They have functions and your business either fits in with it or it doesn't. I could be wrong...anyway, clearly it works "as is" and changing things around to make us feel better about being polite from a human perspective just seems to neuter the whole exercise.

Lets face it...command in this instance is about defining without mistake, our intent. The orations are not much more than a few lines so they have to get to the point and the POINT is you...not the spirit. It's one word....it's not like we're issuing curses or whatever.

Here's a bad analogy but it's the best I've got right now: say I'm across the busy city street and you want me to get your dry cleaning on my way to your place. You wave and get my attention...are you going to yell so your intent is made clear...or are you going to speak quietly because yelling might give me the wrong idea and I could be offended by your use of volume and take it as some kind of display of aggression? Chances are...by the time you're done over thinking it I've walked on...or just not understood your intent over the damn traffic!

I think the idea of language and "relationship" is out of step here. These are NOT disembodied people with our cultural sensibilities. They don't have personality disorders or inferiority complexes...they are what they are and nothing we do or say is able to threaten that for them. Unless you are brimming with adversarial hostility and hatred to wards the entity...the use of the word "command" is not going to convey negativity. Not in the slightest.

I think our experiment shows that, at the end of the day you get your intent across or you don't, you invoke and raise the energy within you or you don't and the language YOU use requires a commitment from you and a focus. Due to the preciseness of the small oration...watering down the language seems to equal watering down the invocation process.

Invocation is very important here as well as in other forms of evocation...how often do we hear terms like "inflame thy-selves in prayer" or feel charged and full of fire after and during a purposeful oration etc...the same principle here.

Just how I see it after the experiment. :-)

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summerland
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Re: Why Do We Command the Entities/Spirits in NAP?

Post#18 » Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:05 am

Yea I think ill convert back to command. It seems when I get to the word should I say command or requests I seem to stumble.
And the effect down plays, I guess what I mean is...If Im feeling a little hesitant that probably cause the effect of my feelings. I have always shown utter respect to Elubatel, It worked before I guess its something I need to work on within. I think the approach to Elubatel is more important than what word you should say when invoking him. I believe if your feeling any doubts when invoking Elubatel thats what you get with him.
"Ni neart go cur le cheile "

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Omnis Validus
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Re: Why Do We Command the Entities/Spirits in NAP?

Post#19 » Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:17 pm

:goodpost Slater

That is basically the conclusion I came to, after opting to use a less demanding tone with NAP early last year. With this system especially, it's all about you, your ability to connect with the entity in question, and the clarity of your intent - all of which are watered down when one get's caught up relating these spirits (angels in particular) to their own, human ego (with the need for approval and niceties, etc.) Clarity is the most important thing when it comes to the language; "command" is definite, "request" is uncertain.

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mrblack
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Re: Why Do We Command the Entities/Spirits in NAP?

Post#20 » Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:20 am

I tend to think that the whole "Commanding" or "Requesting" is not the issue because
I've seen it work for both sides of the field.

However, as what Slater mentioned, it's about communicating your intent clearly - that's
the key to making it work. I can be respectful and make my intent clearly, heck - I can
chant the entities name (like how I did in my previous success story) and still get results
with that method.

Words are just words and like in mundane side of communication, one aspect of the
whole process of communication.

As we are going with analogies, I can say "I love you" a million times but 1 kiss will
say it the loudest and clearest. :)

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