The miracle of new avatar power by Gray-Cobb, Geof

[Virtual Grace]

I apologise it was just a bit of humour ...

Yours Humbly Boobin

*LMAO*

Vovin, you are damn funny!

Sorry about posting off-topic earlier, but such a deep and serious topic like Evocation Magik needs a little light brevity now and then.

I'm so glad you are always ready to provide some! Ha ha! Yours Humbly, oh that's great!

[Virtual Grace]

Why do you guys think that the black magik part of NAP works so fast and directly while the rest of it takes so long? Is the Dark side really more powerful (snicker) sorry...I'm a Star Wars geek!

Reading between the lines in regards to your post I dont think using NAP in a dark or light side has anything to do with timing, they both work just as effectively and doing your homework you would find most of the spirits in NAP conflicting with a stereotypical Satanic bent.. Most of the spirits are from hebrew Grimoires and traditions eg: The Sixth and Seventh books of Moses.. And thats if you believe Satan and Lucifer are the same spirit when there is plenty of raging debate that they are not one and the same.. Magic is a technology its the Intent of the operator that renders the outcome. As for backfire that only occurs from the fulfillment of unwise wishes.

Vovin...I don't think I asked my question very well. I just meant that people posting seem to have gotten dramatically effective results from using the "black" part of NAP, while people, including myself, have seemed to have had less than incredible results with the other spells in NAP. Comparitively speaking that is. So I was wondering if there is more "punch" to the Darker side? This would make sense to me from the perspective that Darker magik would be closer to the Earthly plane and the energy present in this plane at this time. If it is closer it would allow for an earlier and more dramatic manifestation. Does that make any more sense? I have done a little homework *pokes out tongue* and I did read the books of Moses and Seals of Solomon years and years ago. I will have to look them up again if there is a correlation though...thanks! I always thought Lucifer and Satan were different entities. Doesn't Satan correspond to fire, Lucifer air, Belilal earth and Leviathan (sp?)water? I always thought that the idea of "God's" antithesis being one being was a typical Xian perversion designed to limit the obvious number of Beings disatisfied with "his" rule?


El Brujo...thanks for answering the above. But don't you think the Law of Karma is the same thing as the Law of Attraction? It's very similar. The kinds of energy/actions you set out is what you get in return. I know I always thought they were the same. It's important for me to understand this. There have been times I've wanted to use the Astral Bomb or some of the others, but with my luck...I'll get a spanking from Big Daddy. And not the good kind either!!! *S* See, when I read NAP, I got the idea that the "Dark Magik" side really wasn't Dark. That it's all neutral so there was no price to pay or Karma or backlash or whatever. What do you think?

satanservant...could you describe some of the precautions you've taken? I'm very interested in your perspective but I would love more detail.


Sorry for the multiple post guys, I was trying to cut back on my posts in case some one throws a hissy fit again!

[satansservant]

Hi,As those socalled angels in nap,I believe they are just demons.I even went as far as changing the incantations and gave them a more satanic flare and they worked just as well for me without any confrontations from angels. From my own studies and serious debates with jewish rabbi's and educated christain evangalists,angels do not work threw the occult.That goes for any form of occult practice.To real angels,they avoid it like the plague and consider occult magick an abomination.The christain bible and the jewish bible forbid it and view all occult practices of the demonic world.I was so relieved when i found out.Your right,it would be hypocritical for me to use angels and evoke their wrath,but i view them just demons in disguise fooling humans who are unaware of this secret.So now you know.

[Virtual Grace]

By the way satanservant, you realize the entities in the Nap/MG are Angels, right? It just seems silly when Satanist preach satanism then go around and start evoking angels for money lol

Oh wow, I didn't see this post! How do you know these spirits are angels? I didn't see anything in NAP about what TYPE of beings they were. How did you find this out? I know this may be a "flip flop" question *rolls eyes* but why in the world would an Angel grant money? Granted my only understanding of Angels comes from Xian/Biblical views, but Angels have always been described as beings that do nothing but carry out "God's" will. I don't see why "Heavenly Beings" would be concerned with gifting money upon unappreciative humans. It makes more sense that demons would though if you take to the idea that their whole purpose in Being is to help enslave mankind to materialistic devotion. I always thought the NAP spirits were sort of like, Earthly spirits that can be called upon for Earthly needs.

BTW....*LMAO* that is really cute!

[ElBrujo]

Virtual Grace, they are angels. If you look at the book, Dictionary of Angels, you will find many of them there. Some are egrigores. Others, I dont know.

[vovin]

Vovin...I don't think I asked my question very well. I just meant that people posting seem to have gotten dramatically effective results from using the "black" part of NAP, while people, including myself, have seemed to have had less than incredible results with the other spells in NAP.

I sure that is just your personal experience with the system .. As most on this forum have used it for more positive requirements I have used both.. And I see no difference..

From my own studies and serious debates with jewish rabbi's and educated christain evangalists,angels do not work threw the occult.That goes for any form of occult practice.To real angels,they avoid it like the plague and consider occult magick an abomination.The christain bible and the jewish bible forbid it and view all occult practices of the demonic world.I was so relieved when i found out.Your right,it would be hypocritical for me to use angels and evoke their wrath,but i view them just demons in disguise fooling humans who are unaware of this secret.So now you know.

Well I was one of those evangelical christians and I have some Rabbi Friends and both are not qualified to debate on the occult or the nature of spirits. As for the nature of spirits we know that there is a huge difference between the judeo/christian viewpoint and reality.. Again I disagree that they are demons in disguise. I say that after evoking some of these spirits. As for materialistic requirements most are willing to assist but will and do get tired of being your wallet if you dont learn lifes lessons.. and they become less and less effective over time if abused..

[ElBrujo]

From my own studies and serious debates with jewish rabbi's and educated christain evangalists,angels do not work threw the occult.That goes for any form of occult practice.To real angels,they avoid it like the plague and consider occult magick an abomination.The christain bible and the jewish bible forbid it and view all occult practices of the demonic world.

Thats what your pastor and reverand wanted you to believe. Angels can be just as materialistic as demons, just as angels can be mean and vicious as some of the big baddies out there. I see you're still stuck in the whole xtian paradigm. As a magician, you need to stay away from such dogmatic beliefs and follow your own set of principles.

[Grab]

Black or white, I don't know, but I have been largely unsuccessful with the "constructive" magick in NAP.

With constructive, I include intents like "attract hot chicks" or "I need a raise at work". Even "Make specific girl #7 my sex buddy" would be constructive, since it would require constructing a new "relationship", and it won't come from nowhere.

With destructive, i mean "kick Mr Q's astral behind".

[BrotherM]

Vovin, can you please revoke my Modness so that I can continue to flame and be agressive? Sorry... must resist urge to inflict flamage.... aaaarrrrgggggggg!!!!!!

Satanservant, some of the most destructive beings in existance are angels. Iachadiel for instance. Also, how do you figure they abhore the occult? I just can't get my head around your thinking... Please substantiate your claims with... something!

BTW, I also used to believe the NAP "spirits" were thought forms of some kind, now I believe they are spirits. If I had to guess, I would assume elemental spirits

BrotherM

[beanwestphil]

Now when I Solomon heard this, I entered the Temple of God, and prayed with all my soul, night and day, that the demon might be delivered into my hands, and that I might gain authority over him. And it came about through my prayer that grace was given to me from the Lord Sabaoth by Michael his archangel. [He brought me] a little ring, having a seal consisting of an engraved stone, and said to me: "Take, O Solomon, king, son of David, the gift which the Lord God has sent thee, the highest Sabaoth. With it thou shalt lock up all demons of the earth, male and female; and with their help thou shalt build up Jerusalem. [But] thou [must] wear this seal of God. And this engraving of the seal of the ring sent thee is a Pentalpha."2


The above is taken from the Testament of Solomon, a book that was not included in the Bible at the Council of Nicea. It proves that Solomon received his knowledge from God via Michael.