Odd Insights into Hekate

Syncretic Egyptian / Graeco-Roman magic from the collection of texts known as the Papyri Graecae Magicae.
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Enchantress
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Re: Odd Insights into Hekate

Post#41 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:03 pm

Maybe but I am more interested in the working of Hecate than of her history.Not disrespect for my friend or for your very good discussion on this.Thank you.
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Rubygirl
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Re: Odd Insights into Hekate

Post#42 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:05 pm

If Hecate is a Titan, she pre-dates mankind. So she technically wouldn’t be of any country, people in countries only claim dieties when it suits them and The Ancient Greeks and Romans were still pretty patriarchal, being a female, it probably took centuries for her cult to catch on.

But with that said, why don’t we just ask Hecate?

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Enchantress
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Re: Odd Insights into Hekate

Post#43 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:11 pm

Rubygirl wrote:If Hecate is a Titan, she pre-dates mankind. So she technically wouldn’t be of any country, people in countries only claim dieties when it suits them and The Ancient Greeks and Romans were still pretty patriarchal, being a female, it probably took centuries for her cult to catch on.

But with that said, why don’t we just ask Hecate?

Do you suggest a way to do this?
Touch not the cat without a glove

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Leonardo_Drakon
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Odd Insights into Hekate

Post#44 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:50 pm

​We're never going to find concrete evidence to say Hekate is originally from one location or culture or an other as there is evidence in a myriad of directions (From Anatolian Great Mother Goddess to Minoan snake goddess ). The Temple at Lagina (in modern day Turkey) is often cited as evidence for her Anatolian origin, but this is by no means a smoking gun.

This is the nature of really old spirits, they were adopted so early on by many cultures that it is impossible to trace their exact origin. A non-Greek origin is just as likely as a Greek one considering the importance of non-Greek deities in Greek mythology (Artemis for example). But what exactly is Greek anyway in late antiquity? True it was the lingua franca of the ancient world but there were many cultures mixing (i.e. Thracian, Egyptian, Trojan, etc.) and ideas flowing in and out and even among the natives of the Greek islands and mainland themselves there are various cosmologies and local cults. The concept of a unified Greek mythology is a fallacy propagated by the later white-washing of classicists who wanted to re-imagine ancient Greece as the pinnacle of civilization and model for modern states.

Also, keep in mind that Hekate was ancient and was venerated long before the Olympian gods. Hesiod states this himself in his Theogony and proclaims that she kept her dominion over the earth, land and sky after Zeus overthrew the Titans indicating that she already had that dominion. This is the earliest textural record of Hekate and it is clear that her cult was ancient before this was ever penned.

What is concrete is that the modern Neo-Pagan view of Hekate as the crone aspect of the triple lunar goddess is a far cry from any historical understanding of her. She is as much a lunar goddess as she is solar (particularly early on and in the Chaldean oracles) and in the magical literature she is equally depicted as triple formed as well as tetradic (four aspects) and as a singular maiden. As her epithet states, she is truly polymorphos ('of many forms') and polyônymos (' of many names').

Here are some of my examinations into her role in the PGM with references for those wishing to delve into it deeper:

http://voces-magicae.com/2015/04/17/hekate-in-the-pgm/
http://voces-magicae.com/2015/08/05/pgm ... of-hekate/
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The Warlock King
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Re: Odd Insights into Hekate

Post#45 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:03 pm

Enchantress wrote:Maybe but I am more interested in the working of Hecate than of her history.Not disrespect for my friend or for your very good discussion on this.Thank you.


Yes, I agree... And thanx for a good chat! :)

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Gilbertopb
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Re: Odd Insights into Hekate

Post#46 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:27 pm

Despite reading all that, I always say I'm not a scholar.

So as a practitioner, I think: Greek? Muslim? Chaldean? Turkey?

To me, She's a Queen of the Night and the astral Realms. That works for me. :whistle

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Leonardo_Drakon
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Re: Odd Insights into Hekate

Post#47 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:42 pm

Gilbertopb wrote:Despite reading all that, I always say I'm not a scholar.

So as a practitioner, I think: Greek? Muslim? Chaldean? Turkey?

To me, She's a Queen of the Night and the astral Realms. That works for me. :whistle


Are you implying one cannot be both?

Context is important when approaching spirits, and being able to frame rituals and interactions according to the precedents of traditions that worked with said spirit keeps our practice centered....otherwise one can be fooled into thinking they are working with a particular spirit when in fact they are not. Given that to my knowledge there are no extant living traditions that work with Hekate, proper scholarship and examination of historical rituals and spells provides that ever important context (from appropriate offerings, to magical formulae for calling her forth).


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Rubygirl
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Re: Odd Insights into Hekate

Post#48 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:08 pm

Enchantress wrote:
Rubygirl wrote:If Hecate is a Titan, she pre-dates mankind. So she technically wouldn’t be of any country, people in countries only claim dieties when it suits them and The Ancient Greeks and Romans were still pretty patriarchal, being a female, it probably took centuries for her cult to catch on.

But with that said, why don’t we just ask Hecate?

Do you suggest a way to do this?


I don’t work with hecate yet but have been very curious about her.

@Leonardo_Drakon made a good suggestion to see what her tradition did and then recreate that.

I usually light candles and speak to spirits through the candle then they’ll influence my dreams and a few times have given me visions while I speak to them. I think how they respond is different for everyone, based on your gifts and the level of development. I chanted Ra for 1 hour once and the visions I got of the planetary spirits I was working with were off the chain.

I think a really good thread to start would be a HOW TO TEST THE SPIRITS? Thread. @Leonardo_Drakon.

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Enchantress
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Re: Odd Insights into Hekate

Post#49 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:16 pm

Leonardo_Drakon wrote:
Gilbertopb wrote:Despite reading all that, I always say I'm not a scholar.

So as a practitioner, I think: Greek? Muslim? Chaldean? Turkey?

To me, She's a Queen of the Night and the astral Realms. That works for me. :whistle


Are you implying one cannot be both?

Context is important when approaching spirits, and being able to frame rituals and interactions according to the precedents of traditions that worked with said spirit keeps our practice centered....otherwise one can be fooled into thinking they are working with a particular spirit when in fact they are not. Given that to my knowledge there are no extant living traditions that work with Hekate, proper scholarship and examination of historical rituals and spells provides that ever important context (from appropriate offerings, to magical formulae for calling her forth).


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This is important for all to remember.But the most is experience of spirits for real.My friend is scholar but what the book say maybe not happen in actual ritual.Your post is holding the realism. Thanx.
Touch not the cat without a glove

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monsnoleedra
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Re: Odd Insights into Hekate

Post#50 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:50 pm

Let me preface this with I am a friend of Enchantress.

This has been an interesting read so far. So many points touched upon, some I agree with some I disagree with.

I do find it interesting that there is so much focus upon the influence from Temple at Lagina where Hekate was a single headed figure and a young maiden at that. Her Karian persona seldom has the triformus body at any point that I have seen in the historical record right up to the temple's destruction in the 2nd century time frame. Even the depiction of the battle with the giants on the pediment show the single headed form of the young Hekate holding her twin torches not the multi headed form. SO she is more the earthly mother and deliver of children than the mistress of witches that we see associated with Medea in the Argonautica stories.

In fact her three faced or perhaps three formed body is more renowned at Athens than at Lagina. For it is at Athens, especially near the Porch of Maidens with it's Caryatids that the original pillar was supposed to have stood that displayed the original pillar of the three bodied Hekate or the so called Hekataia on the Acropolis. In that capacity she acted somewhat in the manner of the Gorgon's in keeping away evil spirits and the restless dead. Part of her association with the chthonic or underworld aspects of her triformus association.

Yet there is debate regarding that as to whether it is also an association to a connection to Hermes and Enodia which gives her a place of origin in Thrace (modern Bulgaria). Making the Hekataia a reflection of the idea of the herms that stood at the juncture of the old Y shaped cross roads with Enodia / Hekate being conflated due to the mask's that were hung on the herms to confuse the restless dead to keep them from finding their way back to the towns. Potentially also adding to the union of Artemis and Hekate when they would be seen as acting as one another joining their names together. So when Artemis was seen doing somethng at the cross-roads she became Artemis-Hecate or Artemis acting like Hekate or Hekate becmae hekate-Artemis when she was seen doing something that resembled something that reminded one of Artemis' sphere of influence.
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