Greco-Egyptian Magic

Syncretic Egyptian / Graeco-Roman magic from the collection of texts known as the Papyri Graecae Magicae.

tai
Adeptus Minor
Posts: 653

Re: Greco-Egyptian Magic

Post#11 » Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:35 am

Pnouthis wrote:I looking for examples like Greek Magical Papyri, maybe some others papirus with grimore-like recipes to work out this

Check out Tony Mierzwicki’s Graeco-Egyptian Magic and Stephen Edred Flowers Hermetic Magic. I have not read Michael Cecchetelli’s The Book of Abrasax, but I've heard good things about it.

Good luck!


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Pnouthis
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Posts: 91

Re: Greco-Egyptian Magic

Post#12 » Mon Feb 04, 2013 7:12 am

Thank you very much for your information.

Flowers focuses on left-hand-path synthesis so he changed name of original rituals and convert them to more left-hand path energies.

Book of Abrasax yes, I would order it soon as I know Cecchetelli is not bad in practice.
Spirituality is not something you do. If you stop all of your nonsense, you are spiritual. Spirituality is ultimate sense.

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WhiteRaven
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Re: Greco-Egyptian Magic

Post#13 » Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:29 pm

Here is a really great article on Egyptian religion/culture that you may find informative. At the very bottom is a recommended reading list.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bos/bos446.htm

The Greco-Egyptian Papyri aren't what most think. They're littered with influences from other cultures, including Middle Eastern, Greek, Roman, and Hebrew/Jewish. Once the cultures began to meld, it became hard to differenciate what was steeped in tradition and what was "modern". To me that time was very similar to the "new age" "neo-pagan" let's mix all cultures together and make sense of it, that we have been plagued with today in our modern literature. So personally, I would suggest studying all the influences individually so you can attempt to see through the "neo-Egyptian" into the traditional aspects. And especially focus on pure Egyptian culture before they became super eclectic.
[Thoth] contrived...for Cronus the ensign of his royal power, having four eyes...and upon the shoulders four wings...But for the other gods there were two wings only to each upon his shoulders, to intimate that they flew under the control of Cronus.


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Pnouthis
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Re: Greco-Egyptian Magic

Post#14 » Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:12 pm

Greco-Egyptian magic is not new age, they know what they did this why Alexandrian library was world greatest thing for soul and mind.


New age is when you mix all kind of stuff without even understanding basic of reality, magic etc. they knew what they doing and make something better but this is well described in many historic books when these two cultures mixed.
Spirituality is not something you do. If you stop all of your nonsense, you are spiritual. Spirituality is ultimate sense.

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WhiteRaven
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Re: Greco-Egyptian Magic

Post#15 » Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:53 pm

Pnouthis wrote:Greco-Egyptian magic is not new age, they know what they did this why Alexandrian library was world greatest thing for soul and mind.


New age is when you mix all kind of stuff without even understanding basic of reality, magic etc. they knew what they doing and make something better but this is well described in many historic books when these two cultures mixed.


I apologize ahead of time, my keyboard hates me right now. So ignore random periods please.

You've misinterpreted what I said. I'm saying that the mixture of cultures and beliefs at that time is very similar to our "New Age" and it is NOT "original" in the sense of purity of culture. The greco-egyptian papyri came LATE in Egyptian culture after Rome's influences had stormed in. People should know the society and history surrounding what they are reading. And the Greco-Egyptian papyri are far from original Egyptian magick. The influences of other cultures is extremely prominent. It's like picking up an Apache medicine. book and seeing parts of Tibetan shamanism in it. Does it mean the book is worthless? No. But is the book truly Apache medicine? No, and. You won't know what is or isn't unless you're already well read in whatever other cultures are mixed in whith it.
[Thoth] contrived...for Cronus the ensign of his royal power, having four eyes...and upon the shoulders four wings...But for the other gods there were two wings only to each upon his shoulders, to intimate that they flew under the control of Cronus.


shemsakeru
Neophyte
Posts: 27

Re: Greco-Egyptian Magic

Post#16 » Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:36 pm

WhiteRaven wrote:
I apologize ahead of time, my keyboard hates me right now. So ignore random periods please.

You've misinterpreted what I said. I'm saying that the mixture of cultures and beliefs at that time is very similar to our "New Age" and it is NOT "original" in the sense of purity of culture. The greco-egyptian papyri came LATE in Egyptian culture after Rome's influences had stormed in. People should know the society and history surrounding what they are reading. And the Greco-Egyptian papyri are far from original Egyptian magick. The influences of other cultures is extremely prominent. It's like picking up an Apache medicine. book and seeing parts of Tibetan shamanism in it. Does it mean the book is worthless? No. But is the book truly Apache medicine? No, and. You won't know what is or isn't unless you're already well read in whatever other cultures are mixed in whith it.

I totally agree with this statement. I have found that much of what we think is Egyptian magick is really Greco-Roman spinoffs of what they interpreted to be Egyptian magick. For instance, most of the names used for the common deities are Greco-Roman names (Anubis, Osiris, Isis, etc.), these are not the names that the ancient Egyptians used. You have to go back to when Egypt was called Kemet/Khamit, before the foreign invaders even came to that land. The pre-dynastic period. Egypt was ruled many times by peoples who were not indigenous to the continent, starting with the Hyksos and ending with the Greeks and Romans, who ultimately destroyed it. Egypt was a child of Nubia, alot of the deities came from Nubia. The rabbit hole goes really deep with Egypt. Not saying the hermetic teachings are irrelevant but when it comes to this work I like to start at the source and then work my way to the present. I get more of a pure understanding this way.


jsp
Zelator
Posts: 81

Re: Greco-Egyptian Magic

Post#17 » Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:59 pm

Look into The Greek Magical Papyri in Translation, Including the Demotic Spells
by Betz, Hans Dieter


Topic author
Pnouthis
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Posts: 91

Re: Greco-Egyptian Magic

Post#18 » Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:59 am

I'm not saying that this is pure Egyptian magic but mixed kind of with these cultures. I think reconstruct of Egyptian magic is impossible in the way it was practice that days back but greco-egyptian is still kinda possible because of magical papyris.
Spirituality is not something you do. If you stop all of your nonsense, you are spiritual. Spirituality is ultimate sense.

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WhiteRaven
Adeptus Exemptus
Posts: 2282

Re: Greco-Egyptian Magic

Post#19 » Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:41 pm

shemsakeru wrote:
WhiteRaven wrote:
I apologize ahead of time, my keyboard hates me right now. So ignore random periods please.

You've misinterpreted what I said. I'm saying that the mixture of cultures and beliefs at that time is very similar to our "New Age" and it is NOT "original" in the sense of purity of culture. The greco-egyptian papyri came LATE in Egyptian culture after Rome's influences had stormed in. People should know the society and history surrounding what they are reading. And the Greco-Egyptian papyri are far from original Egyptian magick. The influences of other cultures is extremely prominent. It's like picking up an Apache medicine. book and seeing parts of Tibetan shamanism in it. Does it mean the book is worthless? No. But is the book truly Apache medicine? No, and. You won't know what is or isn't unless you're already well read in whatever other cultures are mixed in whith it.

I totally agree with this statement. I have found that much of what we think is Egyptian magick is really Greco-Roman spinoffs of what they interpreted to be Egyptian magick. For instance, most of the names used for the common deities are Greco-Roman names (Anubis, Osiris, Isis, etc.), these are not the names that the ancient Egyptians used. You have to go back to when Egypt was called Kemet/Khamit, before the foreign invaders even came to that land. The pre-dynastic period. Egypt was ruled many times by peoples who were not indigenous to the continent, starting with the Hyksos and ending with the Greeks and Romans, who ultimately destroyed it. Egypt was a child of Nubia, alot of the deities came from Nubia. The rabbit hole goes really deep with Egypt. Not saying the hermetic teachings are irrelevant but when it comes to this work I like to start at the source and then work my way to the present. I get more of a pure understanding this way.


Exactly! Thank you. :)
[Thoth] contrived...for Cronus the ensign of his royal power, having four eyes...and upon the shoulders four wings...But for the other gods there were two wings only to each upon his shoulders, to intimate that they flew under the control of Cronus.

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MMA_Magus
Practicus
Posts: 113

Re: Greco-Egyptian Magic

Post#20 » Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:45 pm

WhiteRaven wrote:Here is a really great article on Egyptian religion/culture that you may find informative. At the very bottom is a recommended reading list.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bos/bos446.htm


Thanks for the article, here's an interesting snippet about mixing gods. It makes sense, Mars isn't really Nergal or Tyr for example.

"Ancient Egyptian traditions (of which there were a dozen or more)
taught that you don't mix gods and goddesses indiscriminately, even if
they do share SOME attributes or powers. Their "High Concept" was that
even any one god/dess has several powers and to invoke specific powers
required the knowledge of what sacred symbols are associated with that
power, even if he/she (the god/dess) should be sitting down or stand-
ing up, the ritual done in daylight or nighttime. Many shamastic
religions don't mix and match their god/desses, don't do sun god/des-
ses at night and vice versa. The thoughts or reasons behind it is that
mixing and matching causes:

a. The ritual will not be as effective.
b. The ritual may not be effective.
c. The ritual or the residue afterward will have powers that weren't
intentioned by the person, but was part and parcel to the god/dess
invoked.
d. The ritual will backfire.
e. The ritual will have residue that will be uncomfortable.
f. It's warps the lines of power (more shamanistic thinking than
Egyptian, who says that it warps the Sa, which translates as spiritual
power).

Many shamanistic religions do not ground their power after the
ritual (after all, it usually is being held at a sacred spot). They
feel that either because the power will be contained at the power
spot, or the powers you invoked were clear enough not to leave a side
effect. Still, I am not proposing to not ground yourself afterward.


2084

So, what I do propose is to not try to associate one god/dess
with another. None of them will have the exact same attributes or
powers. And invoking Pan and Bacchus at an Egyptian temple, or Pan at
Stonehenge is just as bad as invoking Gabriel at the Great Pyramid!
It won't work, you won't get the power from the spot you want, only
your own, or negative power.

Isis, for instance is considered by most Wiccan's as one of the
Great Mother Goddesses. yet in ancient Egypt, out of her 3,000 year
history, most of the time she was not known as a Mother Goddesses.

At the Church of the Eternal Source (federation of Egyptian
temples) Isis Priest/esses rarely held out for very long. All kind of
terrible things generally happened to them. The main reason is that
all of them used part of Isis's powers, and would not work, or refused
to recognize her other powers. Eventually though, they seeped in
anyway and to their detriment. Had they recognized all of her powers
in the first place, things might have been different.

Perhaps your basic misconception is that all goddesses represent
the same forces; they don't; and neither do the gods.

Yes, basically there is one great force that encompasses both
male and female powers. This basic force, as it filters down, dif-
ferentiates into different types of forces, and these forces are the
god/desses that we know.

Isis doesn't have the same powers as Sekhmet or Hathor or Bast.
they may share some of the powers, but they have powers unique to
them.

Kind of like Leonardo De Vinci knowing a lot about everything, but
Cellini was an excellent goldsmith, Van Gogh a painter, Perot a
businessman.

Hence, not all goddesses are the same, nor do they have the same
powers.

You might consider it like rivers and oceans in reverse. The ocean
has all the attributes, and it drains it attributes into separate
rivers (some swift, some calm, some wide, some narrow, some short,
some long.

In Egypt the ultimate deity was called "Neter", which translates
as "Divine Principle" and the work is neuter, having both male and
female principles within. The next in order is a male neter and a
neteriat, a god and a goddess. Below that comes numerous god/desses
which more specific powers and attributes.

Now the question is, where these receptacles of specific powers
invented by mankind or higher powers? In the long run, it doesn't
matter as long as they work."
Magic, physics, and fighting; it's all about information exchange.

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