Greco-Egyptian Magic

Syncretic Egyptian / Graeco-Roman magic from the collection of texts known as the Papyri Graecae Magicae.
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MMA_Magus
Practicus
Posts: 113

Re: Greco-Egyptian Magic

Post#21 » Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:49 pm

Here's a counter argument to my previous post that mixing systems (gods) is a good thing.

http://pomomagic.wordpress.com/2006/07/ ... g-systems/

Mixing Systems
I’ve often heard that one cannot mix paths, but I have yet to see a
good argument for this position. In the spirit of Rogerian debate,
however, here is what I regard as the strongest possible position for
the idea that you cannot mix approaches:

Doing so takes up more time, so that you never get deep into one
particular system, but always remain on the surface of several.
Spiritual advancement requires discipline and commitment, and dabbling
with x and then with y implies a certain lack of commitment.

I agree that, if one only learns the basics of many different systems,
there won’t be much long term benefits. However, I disagree that
exploring or studying several systems necessarily implies lack of
commitment or discipline, or that it guarantees a lack of depth. For
example, I might study the runes and ask myself how they apply to the
Qabalah. In doing so, I might gain some insight into both runes and
Qabalah that I would never have gained if I had studied each
separately. Similarly, I might notice in studying Jyotish (which I
am, now), that the sun is considered a malefic (or, rather, “cruel”),
and I might ask how that could reflect on my idea of tifareth. In
what ways in Beauty “cruel?” And my understand of tifareth as the
door of initiation also informs the way, for me, that the Sun in
Jyotish might be called “cruel.” In other words, I apply
understanding from one system in order to understand another deeper.

A foolish approach, however, might be to say “Nyah, the sun isn’t
cruel. I don’t care what those crazy Hindus say — the sun is neato!
Says so right here — see, resh!” That lacks respect for the system.
I may come, eventually, to disagree with the interpretation “cruel”
for the sun — but I want to understand it fully in context before I
abandon it.

And that’s the key: just as when learning a language we learn it in context of our native language but eventually learn to think in it separate from that context if we choose, so when we learn a new symbol system, we learn it in context of ones we already know. Still, the goal is to move in it unabstructed by preconception, while simultaneously being able to activate all our old knowledge when necessary.
Magic, physics, and fighting; it's all about information exchange.

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WhiteRaven
Adeptus Exemptus
Posts: 2282

Re: Greco-Egyptian Magic

Post#22 » Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:35 pm

I agree that we can learn more through comparing various cultures to each other. Limiting one's knowledge is never a good thing.

But I agree with Poe that if we are going to utilize a certain aspect of a culture's belief, especially a spiritual being, we should do so in the tradition and information established around them. You're not going to evoke Loki or Hermes in a Goetic circle, even if people have compared him to Raphael. Even if these are aspects of the same spiritual intelligence, each facet will contain different energy. It is not uncommon for people to separate one deity into multiple personalities. But you wouldn't want Brigid the blacksmith, when you're looking for Brigid the healer. Even though they are the same being, the difference is in how you approach them. And I believe that's what Poe is getting at.

When you gain a personal relationship with one, that's usually when views change, but that is because you are then learning about the entire being as a whole.
[Thoth] contrived...for Cronus the ensign of his royal power, having four eyes...and upon the shoulders four wings...But for the other gods there were two wings only to each upon his shoulders, to intimate that they flew under the control of Cronus.

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km360
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Re: Greco-Egyptian Magic

Post#23 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:39 pm

Pnouthis wrote:
Book of Abrasax yes, I would order it soon as I know Cecchetelli is not bad in practice.


Pnouthis

PM me an address, I'll mail you a copy to get you started on this path. I have found it highly rewarding and I think you will too.

MC
Regnavi, Regno, Regnabo
http://thelionsdens.blogspot.com/


ConjureMan Ali
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Re: Greco-Egyptian Magic

Post#24 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:27 pm

I second the Book of Abrasax. This will provide an excellent foundation for working with Graeco-Egyptian Gnostic and Hermetic magic couple this with the Greek Magical Papyri and you have a pretty exhaustive means of performing work while emersing yourself in the spiritual current.


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Pnouthis
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Posts: 91

Re: Greco-Egyptian Magic

Post#25 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:03 pm

I know, I know, when looking at all this stuff I thought that "this book will be last hope" of gaining some further steps to develop mindset of greco-egyptian magic and hermetic union. Because there are very little well-composed stuff of this paradigm but just many material scraped here and there.

I found rare translation of some Hermes prayer with the secret words of Hermes which there was left on manuscript so I will translate it (it's is not in english) and post here if someone want to test it and workout it with, but it's like routine liturgy and semi-invocation style but still interesting tho.
Spirituality is not something you do. If you stop all of your nonsense, you are spiritual. Spirituality is ultimate sense.

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Poimandres
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Re: Greco-Egyptian Magic

Post#26 » Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:19 pm

Going by the topic of the thread, I assume you are looking at the tradition of unified Greek and Egyptian thought and not pre-Hellenic Egyptian traditions and isolated Hellenic Greek traditions (if such a thing even exists).

Graeco-Egyptian tradition is proper Hermeticism since it stems from the philosophic school of hellenized Egyptians in Hermopolis - the site of the much older Egyptian cult center of Thoth. The Greeks identified Thoth with Hermes, hence they renamed the cult center Hermopolis(originally Khmun) and consequently the schools of thought that emerged from here are identified as Hermetic. Graeco-Egyptian magic is a byproduct of this renaissance of Greek Logic and Philosophy (mainly Pythagorean/Neo-Platonic schools) with Egyptian Magic and Religion.

Keep in mind that we are speaking of traditional Hermeticism which should not be confused with the highly romanticized view of Hermeticism popularized by late 18th and early 19th century Lodge societies (i.e. Masons, Golden Dawn, Theosophists, etc.) .

The absolute best source for this tradition is the PGM as others have stated here. The problem with relying on the PGM alone is that they provide very little in terms of the philosophic and cosmological framework in which the magic is executed. This; however, can be found in the Corpus Hermetica which really gives you the core foundation of the Graeco-Egyptian worldview during this period, and of course can be supplemented with other works such as Plato's Timaeus.

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WhiteRaven
Adeptus Exemptus
Posts: 2282

Re: Greco-Egyptian Magic

Post#27 » Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:46 pm

Christoph wrote:Going by the topic of the thread, I assume you are looking at the tradition of unified Greek and Egyptian thought and not pre-Hellenic Egyptian traditions and isolated Hellenic Greek traditions (if such a thing even exists).

Graeco-Egyptian tradition is proper Hermeticism since it stems from the philosophic school of hellenized Egyptians in Hermopolis - the site of the much older Egyptian cult center of Thoth. The Greeks identified Thoth with Hermes, hence they renamed the cult center Hermopolis(originally Khmun) and consequently the schools of thought that emerged from here are identified as Hermetic. Graeco-Egyptian magic is a byproduct of this renaissance of Greek Logic and Philosophy (mainly Pythagorean/Neo-Platonic schools) with Egyptian Magic and Religion.

Keep in mind that we are speaking of traditional Hermeticism which should not be confused with the highly romanticized view of Hermeticism popularized by late 18th and early 19th century Lodge societies (i.e. Masons, Golden Dawn, Theosophists, etc.) .

The absolute best source for this tradition is the PGM as others have stated here. The problem with relying on the PGM alone is that they provide very little in terms of the philosophic and cosmological framework in which the magic is executed. This; however, can be found in the Corpus Hermetica which really gives you the core foundation of the Graeco-Egyptian worldview during this period, and of course can be supplemented with other works such as Plato's Timaeus.

:goodpost
[Thoth] contrived...for Cronus the ensign of his royal power, having four eyes...and upon the shoulders four wings...But for the other gods there were two wings only to each upon his shoulders, to intimate that they flew under the control of Cronus.


Mullerornis
Philosophus
Posts: 372

Re: Greco-Egyptian Magic

Post#28 » Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:52 pm

I would recommend going with Greek first. Egyptian deities are extremely stern and intense beings that have very bland personalities. Their company, although educational, will not be enjoyable! ....at least that's my opinion through experience.


Amusingly enough, it has been the opposite for me, with the Sun as Ra being more accessible than the Sun as Helios. But I suppose it could be an error on my part, and probably could also have something to do with what I want (Helios is great as an enlightment tutor, while Ra grants the evil eye much more easily)

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nipha333
Philosophus
Posts: 445

Re: Greco-Egyptian Magic

Post#29 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:01 am

can i request that this be moved to the papyri section?
'Goetic Magic … if properly understood would regenerate Western magic and underline its immense cultural significance, on a level equal to any spiritual tradition in the world.' -JSK

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