monsnoleedra wrote:Hekate pushes me to explore other magic's but she also pushes me to explore other conflation's more. It's like the magic's are important in understanding her but the conflation's between her and other goddesses and how those other goddesses have been equally conflated are more important.
I have noticed the same within the context of my work with both Hekate and Ol' Horny, as both are interested in the patterns and overlaps because its in those areas that we find most all truths. Both of them have, in unison and separately, pushed me to understand that most of what we believe we understand about various magical and religious "truths" as they're taught in structured religions are all limited by their individual points of view.
It is where those teachings overlap and come to an agreement that the potent magical understandings and truths are found, as the rest is all essentially window dressing. There's a curious logic to it too, as our shapes are really only in existence on account of the blending that occurs from billions of atoms congregating and shaping us into existence. We are literally the sum of that bleed effect that occurs where the edges meet, and so too should our magical understandings be a reflection on this.
That's what I've been pushed to understand, anyway. The mileage of others may vary.
monsnoleedra wrote:Yet in those conflation's I really cross into the idea of light and shadow and alternating patterns and boundaries. Not just physical boundaries but psychological boundaries that separate them but also tie them together. It's like most people are pretty familiar with the Selene - Artemis - Hekate conflation yet not to many delve into the Bastet - Pakhet - Mafdet - Sekhmet conflation which ties Artemis & Hekate together with them. Especially given that Bastet & Pahket are heavily tied to Artemis for instance. Then you have the Luna - Diana - Triformus - Juno conflation with the moon influences. Which for me keeps going back to shadows, light, transitions, movements and rotations.
Exactly! Many of these beings can be separate yet related while still being distinct entities unto themselves, and they also represent and "channel" specific patterns of energy back into the manifest universe as a part of their existence. In a way, they are Archons of that particular Archetype, and they're a means of getting to know that archetype better just as much as they're individually distinct entities unto themselves.
The same can be said for astrological signs and their manifestation. We're all distinct individuals, but we're also patterned according to how the stars reflect us. If we understand that in a magical sense, then it becomes more intelligible.
That isn't to say that the spirits are meaningless or anything of the kind, as they are anything and everything BUT that. That does not, however, mean that they're not also some manner of expression of basic elemental truths within the Universe.
I tend to agree. I think there might even be multiple ones actually.
I would agree, as I've been hearing the phrase "strophaloi" when I ask her about them. That's a distinct plural, meaning that this too might just be a means of expressing a Divine Truth.
Not only hushed and private settings but also lop sided discussions. It often seems to come across as either this or that and the sides never meet. She's either the MMC of the Wicca conviction or this evil dark goddess of the Left Hand Path influence with an occasional ceremonial / Chaldean type persona tossed in. TO scary for some or to loving for others, the foreboding wicked witch of the east or Glenda the good witch of the North.
It's like it surprises me how few people have actually joined in these discussion we've been having on her in any capacity.
Well stated and I agree. There's something about her that really challenges people and pushes their buttons, same as Ol' Horny. Those that embrace either of them often do so because they're pushed to one fringe or another, and those nearer to the center of their social group are a bit less comfortable with the idea of working with a being that's nearer to the center.
We see this a lot in modern Buddhist and Buddhist-periphary practices, too. People want to work with the Medicine Buddha and Tara-Ma, but they don't want to strive nearer to the aspects of these beings that are less benign in their initial appearance. They seem to forget that the more wrathful-appearing aspects are in fact more active and more reactive, and thus more useful insofar as living within the world.
Its kind of curiously amusing to me, too, as it seems that people are intimidated by a Goddess who has more than one mood, despite that making her more accessible and more relateable. I've always had substantially more difficulty in connecting with those glossed-over beings who are portrayed as being specifically _______. That whitewashing removes the connection and the power, so treating beings like Hekate as legitimate, living deities with likes and dislikes and interests and passions is a far more realistic, useful practice.
I'm hoping, too, that people who read these conversations will pop in more and partake. We were all novices at one point in time or another, and that's often the best time to jump and interact. We don't bite....much.
I think that Janus faced nature also crosses into the complex nature of the Chaldean cosmos as well. But it also crosses into the Strophalos concept as well, given it is a two faced or two wheeled construct where one wheel exists or functions within another. We assume or presume they turn in accordance with each other but what if they turn opposite to one another or counter to one another? Basically like a Janus-Head where they face opposite to one another or away from each other? Suggesting opposing operations or countering operations.
And I'm of the mind that the latter idea is actually more correct and ultimately more useful, as everything in the Universe requires some manner of balance unto itself. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, so recognizing that the axiom As Above, So Below applies to ALL things is a huge part of coming to understand the infinite complexity of the known Universe.
We cannot have extreme evil without extreme good, but we also cannot have little evil without little good. If we did, the Universe would have a conniption and seek to rectify this because that's a Base Truth that has to be observed for this existence to continue.
I see this in a Hindotibetan light, too, as Nataraja is said to dance to keep the world turning. If he were to slip and become unbalanced, I imagine we'd be awash in destruction, for its the transition into his next dance that's said to kill us all and destroy the world with it.
Balance is quite literally required for existence, but that too can be a foreign concept.
I've always wondered if it wasn't some sort of heavenly sigil or concept. In some ways I've always wondered if it didn't in some capacity connect to the two streams connected to the girdle located about the waist of Hekate. Like a horn of plenty, noting the tip of the stream and the mouth opening showing four points. But it wouldn't be a maze about a core yet the core would denote the body of Hekate around which the streams would be hung or suspended. Depending upon how it is supported you might have rings supporting it as an inner support and outer support. That or a feeder like tube coming into the streams over her shoulder and coming down appearing as a tube from above. Just something I got an image of a few times and reminded me a few times of the idea of her being enveloped by serpents that are not actually serpents.
Now THAT is really rather interesting, as I've been getting the serpent that's both a serpent and not a serpent mental connection in an ongoing fashion. It has been coming up as a repeated area of discussion and conceptual hold. I'm reminded of the serpent and the egg motif in which the serpent is wrapped about the egg (see the omphalos).
Here again we have that striping factor in which there's an alternation between textures as a means to magical potency, too.
Perhaps it would be worthwhile to meditate on the kaleidoscope function found in this? This is a fascinating concept to me, as just briefly dropping into that mindset has created both inspiration and what I can best term as "soon".
Its like being swept up into the vision, and I found it reflected it onto myself. This might actually be a part of that magic.
Being ridden happens quite a bit I agree. Sometimes it occurs in such an off hand way that it's more like having some one looking over your shoulder and is like a small voice in the back of your head. One thing I noticed for me anyway is that quite often when I have a rider is that I get 3rd eye visions of things that come across almost like I am watching a movie in a theater. Sometimes it will be like I am observing from a 3rd person perspective but other times it's more like a 1st person vantage perspective.
It's interesting because it's not like 3rd eye scrying though it has some of the same imagery affects / effects.
I hadn't considered this idea of getting a vision as an aspect of being ridden, but that does make a lot of sense given the experience and its nature. I've had identical experiences in addition to having beings hop on for the sake of more or less autonomous interactions. Framing each of these interactions as being related to being ridden actually createst he means through which we can more readily cultivate that kind of connection, since it reforms the kind of barriers we choose to create.
This does, too, correlate with something I'd noticed prior: protection work does tend to insulate oneself from such instances of spiritual connection. If protection is focused on keeping that kind of intersonal spiritual interaction from occurring, then visionary experiences, too, would be limited in their scope.
This concept could well be seen as a blending of essence from two beings as a means of achieving growth and spiritual development, as that would make a whole lot of sense in this context. That could well be a part of the mystery of the strophalos, thinking this through.
This one gets interesting as whether it's be due to being ridden or driven what has been revealed in the physical or mental / psyche have been complete processes. On a few situation its involved both processes at the same time so the experience has been experienced in both the physical sense and mental / psyche sense as a duel experience. I recall one instance where it was basically a situation where it ended up being an inbody and out of body tethered experience which was surreal.
I think I follow what you mean, as there have been points where I was essentially hijacked out of myself and then watched the process unfold in an over-the-shoulder fashion. I was still tethered to myself, but I was watching this occur rather than being present as it was occurring. These processes aren't usually lengthy for me, but they are profound and draining.
I had those but they are usually more shamanic in nature and many times involved dismemberment of some sort. They often start in dreamtime or journey and continue into the awakened state with your guide as sort of a shadow presence. Yet it's not uncommon to have some sort of physical marks on your body such as rashes, welts, bruses where you were ripped, torn or bitten.
Other times it's more due to shape shifting type things where you come out and retain sensations of body parts that are no longer there such as claws, displaced eyes, wings, talons, body distortions, etc.
I've experienced this as well. At times, I've found myself with additional appendages or spiritual modifications that have persisted for periods of time. Some have been permanent and haven't gone away, others are mantles that must be assumed, but there are some serious responsibilities associated with playing with those "armaments".
Soreness seems to be a manifest part of the process of experiencing these things and then bringing them back into the real world. I have found that if that soreness and tiredness doesn't persist, then what I experienced stays in the Otherworld rather than coming here.
Sometimes it's like getting a chemical set and you have a success and want to recreate that success but don't recall exactly what you added to get that success. Part of it is ego for you got praise for that moment of success yet you also got a lot of warning because it was blind luck you got that success vice blowing up the lab. So you know the teacher is now starring at you because you showed some skill but is also worried you might be dumb enough to try on your own and kill yourself for not listening to them.
I suspect you are correct, and in those instances sometimes the instructor is the one that caused you to do whatever you did, so the act of determining whether or not you can recreate what they just did using you is a test unto itself. Hekate seems to love that process with me, and I enjoy it equally as it shows me where I am less skilled, less able, and more in need of greater internal change & more instruction.
In this regard, I hold Hekate in a place of utmost respect. She is many things, and an excellent teacher is very much on that list.
I asked her once about doing the graveyard / cemetery thing and all I heard / got the impression of was "Are you stupid or something!" Which was strange because like I said I've sat out in non-human grave yards and have done formal crossing over rituals for animal spirits that went over a week in duration. Got called on multiple times to act as a spirit keeper but never asked or even suggest to sit in a graveyard.
The closest I ever did to that was did a projection with a chunk of tombstone and that ended badly. The tombstone was from a man's grave who was murdered and the women didn't tell me that part. Double murder in fact and his body was tossed down a mine shaft but got hung up near the top of the mine shaft and recovered, the other man's was not. You don't want to know what was down in that mine shaft or how many other murder victim's had been tossed down there.
That is indeed a rather interesting response from her, considering the circumstances and the rather volatile nature of the energy associated with a murdered man's tombstone. Particularly given the circumstances you'd described, though frankly none of this comes as a surprise to me.
I've had similar experiences in working with the angry, dispossessed, wronged dead, and they are definitely crazy in their own right. The places in which such deaths occurred, too, are traumatized by their very nature.
It occurred to me that part of my own necromantic focus and the associated "attunement" might well be from my childhood, as I grew up in an excessively violent place in which a whole lot of death occurred. Often in near proximity to me, so it wasn't uncommon for me to walk around in places where blood had been on the ground just a week prior.
That kind of experience changes you, and not often for the better.
There's a long stemmed horn that made an interesting sound that I found in some references to both Bastet and Pakhet. Bastet and Pakhet are both strongly connected to Artemis. Bastet via the Upper Nile and Pakhet via the Middle Nile. Both are also associated with Hellene influences into Egypt but at different time frames. Word of advice Pachet is a name confused for Bastet due to a translation error for Ubasti the city of Bast. It has nothing to do with Pakhet which is a Middle Kingdom period goddess from The Spiro De Artemios or Grotto of Artemis near Benni Hassen from the 22nd dynastic period if I recall correctly.
Thank you for the direction. My own thought interest in horns used in this way stems from the use of the horn in tantra, as it is a signal for some of the more wrathful, active beings that are called to place. In those instances, its a warhorn that's used as a signal and signpost, and it can be a useful means of calling a space to order. There's something quite primal about that sound, and it has a specific tune to it.
I'll have to research Bastet and Pakhet, as I know a fair bit about the former, little about the latter. The last time I seriously researched the former was many years ago, however, so I'm rusty.
Something I find interesting and just an observation on my part, for me the idea of shadows and movement gets shown a lot in water (mist / fog / rain / water itself) I see movement and flow via the concentration of light / density through the reflection / refraction / difussion of light as it passes through the element of water in its various forms. Water is also a prime element for me from the notion of my birth planet (Neptune) , to my zodiac (Pisces) to my calling (Navy), even to my place of solace (around water), heck even my primary mythological creature is a dragon (water element in oriental lore), Clan is Wolf which water).
You say you must obscure the flame yet your seeing through the flame. Even if it is the reflection or product of the flame via the smoke or consumption. Wonder if that means something.
I expect it does mean something, and perhaps its an allegory for not staring into the sun directly. There is, too, a substantial bit of magic to be had in the observation of a thing through a reflection. For instance, if you have trouble connecting with a sigil for one reason or another, or wish to insulate yourself from its effects, you can do so by looking at its reflection through coffee or tea. The act of doing so creates the reflection of the intended medium but also insulates the flow of energy through the liquid state of the reflection itself.
Its an odd one for me, however, as I have little in the way of water in my chart. I'm a Leo born in the year of the Fire Rabbit. Ascendant sign is Aquarius, Moon's in Gemini, so for me to use water in this respect is nigh antithetical to my own animus. It does, however, work beautifully.
I feel, too, that there's an element to this practice that combines fire and water through the use of forcing light through water as a means of "taming" it. If that works, then I wonder if sunglasses would be another aspect of the same...its a bit weird, but it makes sense.