Strophalos of Hecaté or Hekate's Wheel

Syncretic Egyptian / Graeco-Roman magic from the collection of texts known as the Papyri Graecae Magicae.
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Re: Strophalos of Hecaté or Hekate's Wheel

Post#11 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:36 pm

In relation to the Strophalos and the associated research, as I've been digging into this, I've not found much in the way of useful root sources. Instead, there's a whole lot of conjecture & plenty of folks parroting what they've read elsewhere, often to the point of making this a trite conversation without a whole lot of additional information.

Keeping this in mind, I've been looking to find instances of the Strophalos that could have been found in archaeological digs to see if I can find further examples and indications of what shape this took and how it was used. I've got my own UPG, but don't really want to lean on that when we're trying to have a historically-focused discussion for the sake of accuracy and additional relevancy.

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Re: Strophalos of Hecaté or Hekate's Wheel

Post#12 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:05 pm

Wanderer wrote:In relation to the Strophalos and the associated research, as I've been digging into this, I've not found much in the way of useful root sources. Instead, there's a whole lot of conjecture & plenty of folks parroting what they've read elsewhere, often to the point of making this a trite conversation without a whole lot of additional information.

Keeping this in mind, I've been looking to find instances of the Strophalos that could have been found in archaeological digs to see if I can find further examples and indications of what shape this took and how it was used. I've got my own UPG, but don't really want to lean on that when we're trying to have a historically-focused discussion for the sake of accuracy and additional relevancy.


Bolded mine

That's the whole problem with this particular topic, there is not much in the actual archaeological records to go by. Any Ijnx's that might have been made were probably made of wood, paper or similar and have long since rotted away. Any smaller pottery items that might have been made have either been shattered, broken so badly as to be unuseful or been misidentified.

Even UPG is not bad if it can be kept in the realm of UPG and discussed from that perspective.

It's like Jade Sol Luna in his book HECATE II The Awakening of HYDRA equates Hekate's Wheel to the Chakra's and the center spoke to the Sol Caelum or Vertex Chakra (Crown Chakra). The 6 points of the spoke to the chakra's of the body and the wheel hubs as the gross world, subtle world and mental world. So you have basically Kundalini rising up through the center of the Wheel which might be equated to the fire of Hekate rising from within or inversely coming down from Hekate and descending from the Crown and disseminating outward into the body. An upward cone or downward cone of fire energy. But you can attribute that to Jade Sol Luna.

Unfortunately we simply can not attribute the prevailing UPG idea for Hekate's Wheel to any particular individual. because of that we can't trace it to any references.
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Re: Strophalos of Hecaté or Hekate's Wheel

Post#13 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:13 pm

Wanderer wrote:I've seen these dodecahedrons before, and they're fascinating as pieces of artwork, though I honestly scratch my head at the idea of them having a ritual purpose or anything of the kind given the nature of what specimens I've seen. They don't really have the look of an item used in ritual, so I wonder if its more akin to their version of the Pyramid....no burn or scorch marks.

However, in Googling this, I did find this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... oGapxsanaI
Any seamstresses/knitters here use anything similar?


That's an interesting though. Would seem a useful item especially for a northern climate.
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Re: Strophalos of Hecaté or Hekate's Wheel

Post#14 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:00 am

Wanderer wrote:
Same here, as this seems like a fascinating look into the Proto-Indo European mindset. I've not had much time to do additional reading on the subject, as I was intentionally offline last weekend. In brainstorming and reflecting on this, however, I am reminded of the concept of Wyrd (as it relates to Fate)....the original term for Wyrd in the PIE world was "Wert", meaning "to turn", and it is intimately related to the concept of a wheel.

To this end, if a Strophalos is a wheel of one kind or another, then it is conceptually related, and that then relates itself to some of my own UPG in connection to Hekate. When I was working with Her and given a vision, the vision showed a light circling about Her image. This "turning wheel" of light then brought about different manifestations of the Goddess, replete with different tools and facial expressions. I've only done a very small amount of work with this, as I currently lack a statue of Her, but it seems to me that this may well be directly tied to the Strophalos and the concept it represents, given both the Wheel of the Year and the wheel as it ties to Fate via the Wyrd.


Been going back and forth over part of your statement here in my head. It pertained to the idea of a statue of her on a wheel but then I though of a sundial with an image of a Hekate statue in the middle and a Map of the Mediterranean Sea. A circular map with radiating arcs projecting to the various sites and differing influences and traits she would have at those sites. Of course with the sites would also come differing tools.

It had been nagging away at the back of my head for sometime before it clicked in. That was the map of my last float about the Med and all the places and influences she had upon me in 97. I went into the Black Sea and went to Bulgaria, went to Romania, to to the Ukraine. She had a presence in all those places in the archaic times as they all had influences under archaic Thrace as well as Tauras. Then in the Med from the Straits of Gibralter to Egypt, Greece, Turkey, North Africa, all the sea's around Greece, Turkey, Italy. Basically labored about the sundial or strophalos of Hekate's sphere of influences in the archaic world. Touching Earth, Water and Heaven as I rode, flew and walked during that deployment. Just a though that kept nagging away at the back of my head as I was reading your turning wheel of light and different manifestations and faces.
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Re: Strophalos of Hecaté or Hekate's Wheel

Post#15 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:02 am

Check out this report from Lerna and the House of Tiles, especially seals S83 and S86. https://www.ascsa.edu.gr/uploads/media/ ... 147579.pdf

It's sort of interesting to me. If you read all the way through it sort of suggest that Hekate's Wheel is simply a Pottery Maker's mark and one of many at that. It might be either an official's mark or a semi-official's mark or simply a potter's mark. But it doesn't appear to have any religious significance. Can't even say it is connected to a temple mark of any sort.
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Re: Strophalos of Hecaté or Hekate's Wheel

Post#16 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:56 pm

monsnoleedra wrote:That's the whole problem with this particular topic, there is not much in the actual archaeological records to go by. Any Ijnx's that might have been made were probably made of wood, paper or similar and have long since rotted away. Any smaller pottery items that might have been made have either been shattered, broken so badly as to be unuseful or been misidentified.


To be honest, that's the whole problem with just about ANY reconstructed faith. What we have insofar as historical records are concerned is a mess, and whatever remains to this day has likely been "state sanctioned" to some point or another, since a great many records and truthful indications of what would have been practiced were intentionally destroyed through the ages. Thus, what we've got is a skeleton at best, and often times we don't really even know what the skeletal structure was supposed to look like.

monsnoleedra wrote:Even UPG is not bad if it can be kept in the realm of UPG and discussed from that perspective.


UPG then becomes a good thing, but only if discussed from that perspective, as you'd noted.

monsnoleedra wrote:It's like Jade Sol Luna in his book HECATE II The Awakening of HYDRA equates Hekate's Wheel to the Chakra's and the center spoke to the Sol Caelum or Vertex Chakra (Crown Chakra). The 6 points of the spoke to the chakra's of the body and the wheel hubs as the gross world, subtle world and mental world. So you have basically Kundalini rising up through the center of the Wheel which might be equated to the fire of Hekate rising from within or inversely coming down from Hekate and descending from the Crown and disseminating outward into the body. An upward cone or downward cone of fire energy. But you can attribute that to Jade Sol Luna.

Unfortunately we simply can not attribute the prevailing UPG idea for Hekate's Wheel to any particular individual. because of that we can't trace it to any references.


That one's new to me. I've not read the book, so I cannot comment on it specifically. However, that which has been claimed as the "Wheel of Hekate" elsewhere mirrors the "Helm of Awe" designs found in Norse runic magic. I only broach that here because the Aegishjalmur and like designs have been related, through theory, to the Northern concept of the passage of the day in which the day has eight parts...eight spokes, as it were.

If we then see the Wheel as being directly related to the passage of time, this kind of fits in to the established cosmology we're talking about, both with the Wheel of Fortune and the passage of the Solar and Lunar cycles in relation to it. However, I'm simply theorizing in lieu of more legitimate bits of historically relevant information.

//

monsnoleedra wrote:That's an interesting though. Would seem a useful item especially for a northern climate.


With respect to the dodecahedron as a knitting loom of a kind, I had the same thought.

monsnoleedra wrote:Been going back and forth over part of your statement here in my head. It pertained to the idea of a statue of her on a wheel but then I though of a sundial with an image of a Hekate statue in the middle and a Map of the Mediterranean Sea. A circular map with radiating arcs projecting to the various sites and differing influences and traits she would have at those sites. Of course with the sites would also come differing tools.


Well that's certainly interestingly syncretic, given the concept and the "overlay" of it onto an area in which she was worshipped. I mean, that's effectively one way to take the same idea and turn it into a kind of globalization...its different from the vision I had, but the same? This goes back to that weird kind of obviousness you and I were talking about in the other thread about Hekate, though, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

I'm reminded of this statue as we're talking about this: https://www.discoveryguidedtours.com/wp ... emons1.jpg - To me, this perfectly represents the idea of getting access to different versions or aspects of a spirit through a differing angle of approach. Perhaps this is part of the uniting thread?

monsnoleedra wrote:Check out this report from Lerna and the House of Tiles, especially seals S83 and S86. https://www.ascsa.edu.gr/uploads/media/ ... 147579.pdf

It's sort of interesting to me. If you read all the way through it sort of suggest that Hekate's Wheel is simply a Pottery Maker's mark and one of many at that. It might be either an official's mark or a semi-official's mark or simply a potter's mark. But it doesn't appear to have any religious significance. Can't even say it is connected to a temple mark of any sort.


I'll have to give this a closer look, as its fascinating and deserving of singular focus in digesting this material, however, I notice that S74 has a similar triskele-esque focus to it, and it appears to be a slight variation on S83 and S86. All are posited as "makers marks", given the intellectual attitude of the paper, but I wonder if they're essentially the period-appropriate version of sigils, no different than what we've seen on defixiones tablets.

Curiouser and curiouser.

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Re: Strophalos of Hecaté or Hekate's Wheel

Post#17 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:56 pm

Wanderer wrote: To be honest, that's the whole problem with just about ANY reconstructed faith. What we have insofar as historical records are concerned is a mess, and whatever remains to this day has likely been "state sanctioned" to some point or another, since a great many records and truthful indications of what would have been practiced were intentionally destroyed through the ages. Thus, what we've got is a skeleton at best, and often times we don't really even know what the skeletal structure was supposed to look like.


I agree there. The further removed we are from the event the more corrupted things become. Not only corrupted but "Revamped" to make it "Fit" any modifications that a new grouping wants to have so it supports some story line or history they need.

That one's new to me. I've not read the book, so I cannot comment on it specifically. However, that which has been claimed as the "Wheel of Hekate" elsewhere mirrors the "Helm of Awe" designs found in Norse runic magic. I only broach that here because the Aegishjalmur and like designs have been related, through theory, to the Northern concept of the passage of the day in which the day has eight parts...eight spokes, as it were.

If we then see the Wheel as being directly related to the passage of time, this kind of fits in to the established cosmology we're talking about, both with the Wheel of Fortune and the passage of the Solar and Lunar cycles in relation to it. However, I'm simply theorizing in lieu of more legitimate bits of historically relevant information.


Yeah Jade Sol Luna's model is not one that is encountered to much. Which is sort of strange to me when you figure how often you see people go on and on about Chakra's, Karma and other Eastern cosmology things now days.

In some ways I think, here again my own UPG and Opinion, the reason you don't see a clear connection between the Heathen Influence and the Wheel is the disdain that existed early on between Paganism and Heathenism. That was a rather harsh divide right up until the 2000's for sure. You had a lot of Kemetic, Hellene and Roman Wiccan's even a handful of Keltic Wiccan's but you really didn't see a whole lot of Nordic Wiccan's that I recall.


Well that's certainly interestingly syncretic, given the concept and the "overlay" of it onto an area in which she was worshipped. I mean, that's effectively one way to take the same idea and turn it into a kind of globalization...its different from the vision I had, but the same? This goes back to that weird kind of obviousness you and I were talking about in the other thread about Hekate, though, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

I'm reminded of this statue as we're talking about this: https://www.discoveryguidedtours.com/wp ... emons1.jpg - To me, this perfectly represents the idea of getting access to different versions or aspects of a spirit through a differing angle of approach. Perhaps this is part of the uniting thread?


Yeah don't know why that played out in my mind that way but it did. Sort of got me to thinking about a compass rose to be percise.

I'll have to give this a closer look, as its fascinating and deserving of singular focus in digesting this material, however, I notice that S74 has a similar triskele-esque focus to it, and it appears to be a slight variation on S83 and S86. All are posited as "makers marks", given the intellectual attitude of the paper, but I wonder if they're essentially the period-appropriate version of sigils, no different than what we've seen on defixiones tablets.

Curiouser and curiouser.


I agree it probably has to be looked at separately. I don't think it would be like a defixiones table though. If you look at the one picture that goes with S83 you'll see there are like 4 seal's on that one item. That makes me think of printers waste. That's not something you'd do with a defixione tablet. Yet it is something you'd do with potter's waste where your testing your seals to make sure of the sharpness of the image or outlines. It's almost like when you do a run of plugs or something and you then pull the plug to put them on something. The extra's that are bad or can't be used you cut away or drop the scrap pieces to the floor. That or you test the die marker that will be hit to set the image.

It's like I collect coins from the Hellene period's and sometimes you'll get a double strike where the plug was hit then struck again. So the image is shifted or flattened out. Some of these seals look like they were done with die's and the die was struck into the pottery. Especially when you have a number of them on a singular piece, with some of them overlaying.

One thing that intrigues me though is if we assume they are "Hekate's Wheels" then why? Near as I can tell Hekate had no presence on that location. Why would a pottery maker be casting that image on pottery pieces? We have no record that I have found of that location exporting to any sanctuary, temple or shrine that served Hekate.

Near as I can tell, and I admit I'm still digging, the place had a history dedicated to Hercules and Hades. Perhaps to Demeter & Persephone but Hekate is not strictly associate at all sites with Demeter and Persephone and the Mysteries. But the wheel is not usually associated to Demeter, Persephone and Hekate. Which sort of leads it back to a potters mark
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Re: Strophalos of Hecaté or Hekate's Wheel

Post#18 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:15 am

Let me preface all that follows is my own thoughts and UPG so no historical backing.

I think one of the issues here is the image known as Hekate's Wheel has become a sacred image for modern followers of Hekate. That is not in dispute. The usage and association modern practitioners have assigned to the image and through usage have infused into the image have empowered it with Hekate's energy. As such there really is no universal definition of exactly what it represent's in it's pattern though there is a loose collective belief on what the pattern represents individually. I say loosely for I personally tend to find this idea of belief tends to vary based upon not only age of the practitioner but also to a degree upon their specific pathway / belief system. However, gender does not seem to be a point of influence in how the individual defines the wheel.

The biggest problem I see though is like paganism as a whole the wheel is filled with false or pseudo histories to give it more of a legitimate history or truth basis. To say it was created or birthed in the 20th century would be factually correct and just as powerful but would not give it a historical legacy. So it has to have an archaic source to give it a sense of historical legacy to tie it to an archaic past which sort of gives it that legitimacy. But is that legitimacy for the "Wheel's" sake or for the practitioner's sake? In usage it seems more to be for the practitioner's sake to me to be honest.

As an image it has become so popular and widespread that no one even really wonders about it origins. Like an urban legend it has passed from lore to an accepted fact without regard for any sense of truth to its origin. As the story has passed it has changed with some elements remaining the same. Yet the story also grows larger and gets embellished, things added to make it grander or more important to the storyteller. That certainly has happened with the Wheel growing from a small phrase in the Chaldean Oracles as a reference source.
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Re: Strophalos of Hecaté or Hekate's Wheel

Post#19 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:20 pm

monsnoleedra wrote:I agree there. The further removed we are from the event the more corrupted things become. Not only corrupted but "Revamped" to make it "Fit" any modifications that a new grouping wants to have so it supports some story line or history they need.


Exactly. It gets edited and messed about with to some extent or another, often to the point of being marginally recognizeable at best. Add to this any kind of translation errors or spelling mistakes, and things get weird(er) in a hurry. Enough so, in fact, that when working with specific spirits with established traditions, I'll often ask them what their thoughts are on specific elements of their accepted practices to get some sense of what is and is not useful.

Its led to a lot less bloat where ritual practices are concerned, and its help maintain my focus where the Work is concerned. Otherwise, its all too easy to get stuck on what was essentially the UPG of someone who lived 500+ years ago.

monsnoleedra wrote:Yeah Jade Sol Luna's model is not one that is encountered to much. Which is sort of strange to me when you figure how often you see people go on and on about Chakra's, Karma and other Eastern cosmology things now days.


Is it, in your estimation, worth a read?

monsnoleedra wrote:In some ways I think, here again my own UPG and Opinion, the reason you don't see a clear connection between the Heathen Influence and the Wheel is the disdain that existed early on between Paganism and Heathenism. That was a rather harsh divide right up until the 2000's for sure. You had a lot of Kemetic, Hellene and Roman Wiccan's even a handful of Keltic Wiccan's but you really didn't see a whole lot of Nordic Wiccan's that I recall.


I wonder how much of that animosity is more modern and manufactured, as historically speaking, the Norse were pretty forward-thinking in their way. Some of them did go out raiding as Vikings, but there were also plenty of trade routes established with Arabs and eventually the Chinese, according to what material I've been able to find on the matter.

This becomes particularly muddied as we delve further back into history, so if this is a modern concept, I wonder if it has to do with the ideas that the Norse peoples were violent raiders. In a lot of respects, the Celt-Iberians were worse, as they swept through the whole of Europe and eventually raided modern day Ireland. That's where we get the "Black Irish" thing from, as they (the Celt-Iberians) were one of the major invasions.

monsnoleedra wrote:Yeah don't know why that played out in my mind that way but it did. Sort of got me to thinking about a compass rose to be percise.


Makes sense. I can readily see the connection between the idea of the Compass Rose and light shifting about a statue. If the Axis Mundi is "True North" within this context, then it's going to look a hell of a lot different with even the slightest of changes in course. This, then, impacts both the appearance of the AM & its manifestations.

This concept has gotten me thinking about the overlap, though I do admittedly draw something of a blank when trying to visualize this concept of Hekate as "True North" on a compass.

monsnoleedra wrote:I agree it probably has to be looked at separately. I don't think it would be like a defixiones table though.


To clarify, I was referring to the use of sigils like what you would see on a defixiones tablet, rather than comparing the pottery itself to the tablets. A subtle difference, but an important one, and I hope it clarifies my stance a tad.

While some do use the sigils of spiritual beings on curse-related works, that's often the sort of thing that one should do with some manner of permission. Some spirits don't take too kindly to being used in that kind of way.

Hekate isn't one of them, but the point still bears mentioning.

monsnoleedra wrote:If you look at the one picture that goes with S83 you'll see there are like 4 seal's on that one item.[...]


If this is indeed something of a Potter's Mark, in this instance, then I have to wonder if this is a means of sanctifying a vessel by consecrating it for Hekate in advance of shipment elsewhere. We know that there were some pretty well-established trade routes throughout both Greece and Rome despite warring cults, so it may be that by putting a Goddess' mark on them, they'd be considered as "haunted objects" that were too much trouble to mess with?

I'm totally reaching with this idea, but after reading the text you provided, I'm attempting to take on anthropological view of this to see if I can't understand the thought process behind this. Especially given what you've mentioned here, as if there wasn't a shrine or spiritual center dedicated to Hekate in the area, making pottery for her is rather odd.

monsnoleedra wrote:Let me preface all that follows is my own thoughts and UPG so no historical backing.[...]

[...]So it has to have an archaic source to give it a sense of historical legacy to tie it to an archaic past which sort of gives it that legitimacy. But is that legitimacy for the "Wheel's" sake or for the practitioner's sake? In usage it seems more to be for the practitioner's sake to me to be honest.[...]


We agree on this point, as to me it seems to be a point of reference for the Goddess in lieu of having a similarly accessible point of contact for her. Its kind of like a loan sigil, being used because we don't have another sign with which to do so.

With that said, I do not use signs that look like S83 as a point of contact for Hekate, as I prefer to use the Triskele. The Triskele was the first image I ever saw associated with Hekate aside from the Moon and the baying of dogs, so its where my first memories of her are rooted. That's very likely a "me thing", but its pertinent within the context of my practice.

The potential origin and appearance of the Strophalos, however, seems to be a mystery worth poking at. If nothing else, going back and forth on this subject seems to amuse her, and I'm quite happy to entertain her in this way.

To this end, I did attempt to use S83 as a point of connection in reaching Hekate and got the faintest of glimpses at the other end of the call. It has relation enough to create that response, but I did not experience the image itself as an open line when it was a static image.

When I spun it in my mind, however, that connection got to be much, much stronger, which could be indicative.

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Re: Strophalos of Hecaté or Hekate's Wheel

Post#20 » Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:39 am

Wanderer wrote: Exactly. It gets edited and messed about with to some extent or another, often to the point of being marginally recognizeable at best. Add to this any kind of translation errors or spelling mistakes, and things get weird(er) in a hurry. Enough so, in fact, that when working with specific spirits with established traditions, I'll often ask them what their thoughts are on specific elements of their accepted practices to get some sense of what is and is not useful.

Its led to a lot less bloat where ritual practices are concerned, and its help maintain my focus where the Work is concerned. Otherwise, its all too easy to get stuck on what was essentially the UPG of someone who lived 500+ years ago.


I find for me when I am dealing with things I try to place source items in time sequence. When I first started I used to go by quotes and generic references. But now I try to place things in as near a time sequence as I can to see how they relate to often cited reference "quotes".

Have to make a new one but I used to have a time line that dealt with Hekate and when various poems, stories, authors, poets, etc were active. Then when I saw things I though were important as influences or events I'd place them on the timeline as well as quick reference notes. Nothing fancy just things to remind me who, what, when, where.

Have to admit I'm a bit of an analyst though an my degree is in history. Just makes sense to me to do stuff like that.

Is it, in your estimation, worth a read?


Jade Sol Luna's take on Hekate is very much influenced by an Eastern (Kali Ma) slant. There's a lot of Hellene presence but also a lot of his own Eastern influence as well. I read both of his books (there's also a CD). I honestly don't recall it influencing me to much but he does offer some interesting perspective on her. Their not bad books and by far not the worst I've read dealing with Hekate but I wouldn't put them at the top of my list.

I wonder how much of that animosity is more modern and manufactured, as historically speaking, the Norse were pretty forward-thinking in their way. Some of them did go out raiding as Vikings, but there were also plenty of trade routes established with Arabs and eventually the Chinese, according to what material I've been able to find on the matter.

This becomes particularly muddied as we delve further back into history, so if this is a modern concept, I wonder if it has to do with the ideas that the Norse peoples were violent raiders. In a lot of respects, the Celt-Iberians were worse, as they swept through the whole of Europe and eventually raided modern day Ireland. That's where we get the "Black Irish" thing from, as they (the Celt-Iberians) were one of the major invasions.


I honestly think most of the conflict is derived due to the Wiccan presence and influence of the contrasting ideals. Figure the idea of "Harm None, Do As Thou Will" tends to be very much in conflict to the Asatru / Odinist ideals of Battle, Shield Maidens, chosen on the field of Battle by the Valkrie. You might say the Pagan movement still held a lot of it's Hippie / Feminist influences of the 60's & 70's where the Heathen movement was not specifically founded from the fertile field.

Even putting aside the idea that the Odinist movement held lots of racial purity influences and Asatru incorporated some of that. The typical structure of a heathenist grouping with its blots and such was pretty different than your typical coven. That not even taking into consideration the idea of a "Cowan"

Factor in what was occurring regarding the breaking down of the closed lineaged groups on the pagan side during the late 80's early 90's and you had even more divides. It was bad enough on the Pagan side with BTW (British Traditional Wicca) which required initiation and lineage vs all the new self taught, self initiated, self dedicated stuff appearing with the 101 books appearing.

That wasn't even touching the divide that was going on between the Pagan & occult (sorcery) ie ceremonial / high magics grouping at the time.

My personal opinion is I think this period is another reason you see things like Hekate's Wheel appear. It brings in a form of Sorcery that really was not part of many pagan /witchy practices prior to this. I personally do not recall sigils, ceremonial & high magical stuff in many witchy books to much back then. It's only after authors try to add more and more stuff to the mix that you start to see that stuff appear.

Makes sense. I can readily see the connection between the idea of the Compass Rose and light shifting about a statue. If the Axis Mundi is "True North" within this context, then it's going to look a hell of a lot different with even the slightest of changes in course. This, then, impacts both the appearance of the AM & its manifestations.

This concept has gotten me thinking about the overlap, though I do admittedly draw something of a blank when trying to visualize this concept of Hekate as "True North" on a compass.


Not sure she is the true north as much as the "Herme" type figure at the crossroads. The three face / masks that you look upon and each mask / face reveals a differing gaze. Yet what does each gaze reveal as the light and shadows play across it's image as you look upon it and move about it's angle of view?


To clarify, I was referring to the use of sigils like what you would see on a defixiones tablet, rather than comparing the pottery itself to the tablets. A subtle difference, but an important one, and I hope it clarifies my stance a tad.

While some do use the sigils of spiritual beings on curse-related works, that's often the sort of thing that one should do with some manner of permission. Some spirits don't take too kindly to being used in that kind of way.

Hekate isn't one of them, but the point still bears mentioning.


Ah, ok I see what you saying now.

If this is indeed something of a Potter's Mark, in this instance, then I have to wonder if this is a means of sanctifying a vessel by consecrating it for Hekate in advance of shipment elsewhere. We know that there were some pretty well-established trade routes throughout both Greece and Rome despite warring cults, so it may be that by putting a Goddess' mark on them, they'd be considered as "haunted objects" that were too much trouble to mess with?

I'm totally reaching with this idea, but after reading the text you provided, I'm attempting to take on anthropological view of this to see if I can't understand the thought process behind this. Especially given what you've mentioned here, as if there wasn't a shrine or spiritual center dedicated to Hekate in the area, making pottery for her is rather odd.


Just speculation on my part but given all the various "Seals" that were found there it seems more likely they are simply potters marks. If not potters marks then simple designs more so than equated to specific divinities.

If for arguments / discussion lets say it is a ijnx. Then it's a magical emblem used by a number of goddess, usually for love for instance. So it would be a common motif symbol or series of symbols. Now if you place these symbols on a container that is used for say shipping wine or spirits that is used for certain types of public rituals or ceremonies and you wanted to be able to easily show the contents of said containers. You put the seal on the container. We do it today on all our products. Why would the ancients be any different?

It doesn't make much sense for a product to be produced for a temple / sanctuary / shrine at some distance then shipped to the place unless it is either a unique product or some sort of building product. Figure at the ruins of most of your temples / shrines / sanctuaries you find the remains of artisans workshops that produced them for the site. At larger sites even cities grow up around the complexes. Not to say its impossible but seems unlikely.

We agree on this point, as to me it seems to be a point of reference for the Goddess in lieu of having a similarly accessible point of contact for her. Its kind of like a loan sigil, being used because we don't have another sign with which to do so.

With that said, I do not use signs that look like S83 as a point of contact for Hekate, as I prefer to use the Triskele. The Triskele was the first image I ever saw associated with Hekate aside from the Moon and the baying of dogs, so its where my first memories of her are rooted. That's very likely a "me thing", but its pertinent within the context of my practice.

The potential origin and appearance of the Strophalos, however, seems to be a mystery worth poking at. If nothing else, going back and forth on this subject seems to amuse her, and I'm quite happy to entertain her in this way.

To this end, I did attempt to use S83 as a point of connection in reaching Hekate and got the faintest of glimpses at the other end of the call. It has relation enough to create that response, but I did not experience the image itself as an open line when it was a static image.

When I spun it in my mind, however, that connection got to be much, much stronger, which could be indicative.


One of the things that has sort of spun around in the back of my head with this Hekate's Wheel has actual tied into the idea of the Venus Flower. Not sure if you've ever looked at it but it's the heavenly flower shape that the planet Venus makes as it revolves about the sun.
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Presuming that Hekate's Wheel is actually something that is marking movements and is showing motion then where is that motion at? Logically that motion should be in the heavens. But what is the cyclic pattern to what ever is being charted?
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