Odd Insights into Hekate

Syncretic Egyptian / Graeco-Roman magic from the collection of texts known as the Papyri Graecae Magicae.
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nipha333
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Re: Odd Insights into Hekate

Post#161 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:12 pm

Pleiades wrote:
nipha333 wrote:
Pleiades wrote:True and there would have been a lot more excellent ones if Mike had not been so biased in his selecting.

He rejected everything i sent in the last few years of it, and then if i remember correctly he published one of my hekate poems. My poetry is always published under the name "snoe white absinthium" and i threw piles of it at every pagan/witchy/magic publication of the era that accepted poetry. more than i expected got printed, most didnt

Yours would be a familiar story.Ironically toward the end Mike included rubbish from people who had long been avoided by the more serious members of the community.Scraping the barrel was I thonk the phrase floating around to describe that.

Like Monsnoleedra says,you should post the poems here if you have time.


I wish I could. That folder was destroyed in a flood, and sadly, all the copies of the issues of those publications when they ran the work, were in the same boxes that the water got. I have a hope that the original drafts of them are in a box which is at a family members house on the other side of the country, so maybe one day. Most neopagan/wiccan/magickal print stuff went under so i cant get them from the magazines either.

I also once had a very large collection of hekate notes, well used rituals and various things. Those were confiscated by the police from the backseat of my car because when they searched the vehicle they found where i had consecrated the cover with blood, and gave me some bullshit about it being evidence for a possible crime. :toss :toss :toss :toss :toss :toss

moral of the story is, i think when she is readdy to give me new toys to play with, she is like a hacker erasing her footprints from the previous adventure.
'Goetic Magic … if properly understood would regenerate Western magic and underline its immense cultural significance, on a level equal to any spiritual tradition in the world.' -JSK

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monsnoleedra
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Re: Odd Insights into Hekate

Post#162 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:50 pm

nipha333 wrote: I wish I could. That folder was destroyed in a flood, and sadly, all the copies of the issues of those publications when they ran the work, were in the same boxes that the water got. I have a hope that the original drafts of them are in a box which is at a family members house on the other side of the country, so maybe one day. Most neopagan/wiccan/magickal print stuff went under so i cant get them from the magazines either.

I also once had a very large collection of hekate notes, well used rituals and various things. Those were confiscated by the police from the backseat of my car because when they searched the vehicle they found where i had consecrated the cover with blood, and gave me some bullshit about it being evidence for a possible crime. :toss :toss :toss :toss :toss :toss

moral of the story is, i think when she is readdy to give me new toys to play with, she is like a hacker erasing her footprints from the previous adventure.


Sorry to hear that.

Not quite the same but I can relate to loosing research notes, material and stuff. By the time my military career had come to an end after 24 years I had lost all of my stuff pretty much over multiple moves. What I didn't loose in the moves I lost due to hard drive failures or loaning things out to people.

Been both costly and time consuming to try and rebuild my library and research material. Unfortunately, there are things I never could locate again. Memory is nice to fall back upon but it is also fickle in my opinion so hard to use for citing things. But sure doesn't mean she won't put a bee in my head about something and make me seek and seek about some obscure aspect of her's.

It's like she returns to the idea of ritual black water and it's usage at Lagina. I think it's for fire scrying but it's not a burning liquid that I get from her. So I wonder if it's reflection or refraction as one gazes into the water / surface. But when you put your hands into the water it's plain water, no stain upon the skin so it's not inked and the bowl is not black, nor is it done at night. Only thing I'm not completely ruled out is a black veil over the eyes or face but maybe sheer so you "See" through it but not truly with earthly sight. Would make it liminal sight if I am seeing it correctly.

But darn if I can find references to it in anything so far.
Can't Never Did Nothing Till It Tried!

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nipha333
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Posts: 451

Re: Odd Insights into Hekate

Post#163 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:15 am

monsnoleedra wrote:
nipha333 wrote: I wish I could. That folder was destroyed in a flood, and sadly, all the copies of the issues of those publications when they ran the work, were in the same boxes that the water got. I have a hope that the original drafts of them are in a box which is at a family members house on the other side of the country, so maybe one day. Most neopagan/wiccan/magickal print stuff went under so i cant get them from the magazines either.

I also once had a very large collection of hekate notes, well used rituals and various things. Those were confiscated by the police from the backseat of my car because when they searched the vehicle they found where i had consecrated the cover with blood, and gave me some bullshit about it being evidence for a possible crime. :toss :toss :toss :toss :toss :toss

moral of the story is, i think when she is readdy to give me new toys to play with, she is like a hacker erasing her footprints from the previous adventure.


Sorry to hear that.

Not quite the same but I can relate to loosing research notes, material and stuff. By the time my military career had come to an end after 24 years I had lost all of my stuff pretty much over multiple moves. What I didn't loose in the moves I lost due to hard drive failures or loaning things out to people.

Been both costly and time consuming to try and rebuild my library and research material. Unfortunately, there are things I never could locate again. Memory is nice to fall back upon but it is also fickle in my opinion so hard to use for citing things. But sure doesn't mean she won't put a bee in my head about something and make me seek and seek about some obscure aspect of her's.

It's like she returns to the idea of ritual black water and it's usage at Lagina. I think it's for fire scrying but it's not a burning liquid that I get from her. So I wonder if it's reflection or refraction as one gazes into the water / surface. But when you put your hands into the water it's plain water, no stain upon the skin so it's not inked and the bowl is not black, nor is it done at night. Only thing I'm not completely ruled out is a black veil over the eyes or face but maybe sheer so you "See" through it but not truly with earthly sight. Would make it liminal sight if I am seeing it correctly.

But darn if I can find references to it in anything so far.



funny you say that about the black water. in my evokation ritual sequence i have a section called "blackening of the waters" which is focused on the skrying water
'Goetic Magic … if properly understood would regenerate Western magic and underline its immense cultural significance, on a level equal to any spiritual tradition in the world.' -JSK

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monsnoleedra
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Re: Odd Insights into Hekate

Post#164 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:25 am

nipha333 wrote: funny you say that about the black water. in my evokation ritual sequence i have a section called "blackening of the waters" which is focused on the skrying water


Would you care to share that? Not sure it would clarify what I'm seeking but it might. If nothing else might give some other venues of discussion for this Hekate thread.
Can't Never Did Nothing Till It Tried!

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nipha333
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Posts: 451

Re: Odd Insights into Hekate

Post#165 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:34 pm

monsnoleedra wrote:
nipha333 wrote: funny you say that about the black water. in my evokation ritual sequence i have a section called "blackening of the waters" which is focused on the skrying water


Would you care to share that? Not sure it would clarify what I'm seeking but it might. If nothing else might give some other venues of discussion for this Hekate thread.


i fully intend to type up the experience as it relates to the iota routi document ive posted here in the forums. i meant to type them yesterday while my wife was in surgery, didnt happen, now shes home and im playing CNA lol. i will get to it soon!
'Goetic Magic … if properly understood would regenerate Western magic and underline its immense cultural significance, on a level equal to any spiritual tradition in the world.' -JSK

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monsnoleedra
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Posts: 458

Re: Odd Insights into Hekate

Post#166 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:43 pm

nipha333 wrote:
monsnoleedra wrote:
nipha333 wrote: funny you say that about the black water. in my evokation ritual sequence i have a section called "blackening of the waters" which is focused on the skrying water


Would you care to share that? Not sure it would clarify what I'm seeking but it might. If nothing else might give some other venues of discussion for this Hekate thread.


i fully intend to type up the experience as it relates to the iota routi document ive posted here in the forums. i meant to type them yesterday while my wife was in surgery, didnt happen, now shes home and im playing CNA lol. i will get to it soon!


Definitely take care of the wife first. One thing I've discovered about Hekate is when she wants it to come to you it comes in it's time.
Can't Never Did Nothing Till It Tried!

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nipha333
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Re: Odd Insights into Hekate

Post#167 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:35 pm

monsnoleedra wrote:
nipha333 wrote:
monsnoleedra wrote:
Would you care to share that? Not sure it would clarify what I'm seeking but it might. If nothing else might give some other venues of discussion for this Hekate thread.


i fully intend to type up the experience as it relates to the iota routi document ive posted here in the forums. i meant to type them yesterday while my wife was in surgery, didnt happen, now shes home and im playing CNA lol. i will get to it soon!


Definitely take care of the wife first. One thing I've discovered about Hekate is when she wants it to come to you it comes in it's time.


Agreed. also, I just managed to figure out a way to get the iota-routi document IN the thread instead of only a link to download the PDF, viewtopic.php?f=40&t=17101&p=195840#p195840

this is where the write up of the typhonic initiation and the Apep thing will be posted.
'Goetic Magic … if properly understood would regenerate Western magic and underline its immense cultural significance, on a level equal to any spiritual tradition in the world.' -JSK

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monsnoleedra
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Re: Odd Insights into Hekate

Post#168 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:28 am

Well its been a little while since I posted to this thread so though i'd add something new to it for discussion purposes. One of my area's of interest in general deals with dragons and of course if you do searches people have connected Hekate to dragon's as well. Some you might call legitimate via her Chaldean influences, other's, well lets just say I've never found the references that are suggesting the things being cited. Yet near as I can determine many of these "References" start to appear around 2001 though many cut and paste sites really begin around 2011 / 2012 time frame and continue from there.

Most statements fall into the notion that Hekate drives a chariot that is driven by 3 dragons. That she holds 3 keys that open the barrier into the dragon realms. That the Crossroads actually represent the gateway into the dragon realm. That the dragon was related to the Titans and was displaced in her mythology by the dog, perhaps even by Cerberus as a gateway guardian to the underworld.

Definitely trying to connect Hekate to both dragons and dimensional portals into a dragon dimension. Unfortunately, none of the sites ever provide references to back up any of these "claims". Yet the main statements are to be found cut and pasted across a number of sites. A few do have credits listing where they pulled the info from but the originator lacks crediting sources.

However, like I said there are some legitimate connections between Hekate and dragons, though they are indirect.

In Hellene mythology there are specifically 2 people connected to Hekate who have chariots that are pulled by dragons. The goddess Demeter has a chariot pulled by 2 dragons and the witch Medea has a chariot pulled by 2 dragons. Hekate herself to my knowledge is stated as having a silver chariot but it is never really specified what exactly is pulling it. Yet if we base it off of her being conflated with Selene, Diana, Luna, Artemis, Cybele and the animals that pull their respective chariots then it would seem logical her chariot would be Horses (Selene) Dogs (Selene) Deer (Artemis) Deer (Artemis) Lions (Cybele) Bear (Artemis / Diana) Goat (Artemis / Diana). None of which are really associated with a dragon.

So we are left with Demeter and Medea having chariots being pulled by dragons.

Demeter connected to Hekate mostly through the Eleusinian Mysteries. Yes, it forms part of the trinity of Demeter, Persephone and Hekate and the mystery tradition. Yet realistically doesn't make much sense for the inclusion of Demeter's chariot and her dragons. What we know of the Mysteries it's a transition and takes place underground.

So we advance to the story of Medea. Yes Medea is very strongly associated and connected to Hekate. Yet her chariot is given to her by her grandfather Helios not Hekate. In the story its not even Hekate who brings the chariot to her but Artemis. Granted there could be some debate concerning translations but most seem to suggest Medea's chariot is brought by Artemis from Hyperboria. It had been used by her there and tied to Apollo in some capacity which is why it is golden in color.
https://www.theoi.com/Ther/DrakonesMedea.html

Image

Now the Chaldean influence is a bit harder to find images of. In part due to the way the serpent or dragon head is depicted. However, I've attached a copy of an image from a book I purchased that will give an idea of how it was displayed in at least one example.

Scan0002.jpg
Can't Never Did Nothing Till It Tried!

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monsnoleedra
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Re: Odd Insights into Hekate

Post#169 » Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:20 am

Though I'd follow up with a possible source for the idea of Hekate having a chariot that is pulled by three dragons. Now I admit I tend to be something like a dog with a bone when I get focused upon an idea that plagues me and this one has plagued me. I neither endorse nor disclaim this I simply am presenting it as a possible theory and leave it to the reader to arrive at their own conclusions.

As a reminder though the first mentions of Hekate and a chariot being pulled by three dragons I could find appeared about 2011 / 2012. The source I am going to present appeared in a publication with a copy write of 2010.

...................

In 2010 Sorita d'Este had published her work HEKATE - HER SACRED FIRES. It was published by Avalonia books in the United Kingdom. Within the volume was a section titled FROM HEAVEN TO EARTH by John Canard (pgs 91-93)

Basically the section speaks to the usage of Meteors or Meteor shows and how the author incorporates these items into his practices dealing with Hekate. I will not go into detail and will leave it to the reader to obtain the complete article if they are interested. My main interest is a particular paragraph for this discussion.

"I like the image of meteors as dragons or fiery serpents found in the Middle and Far East, as it reminds me of the dragon-borne chariot ridden by Medea, and I find it very easy to see Hekate bearing her twin torches in a chariot, with a triple-headed dragon pulling it through the night sky. Perhaps not entirely a classical image, but one she has presented to me on many occasions." (pg 92)

So here the author is talking about Hekate having a triple headed dragon pulling her chariot through the night sky. An image that he see's created from meteors viewed as dragons. An image I wonder my self, and in my own minds eye I see as a creation of a singular meteor and her two torches creating the triple headed dragon figure.

An image that also would tie into the idea of her Chaldean persona where meteors suggest ill omen's or positive omen's being conveyed in the night skies. An image that would also tie into her world soul imagery with her giving or taking each life as the meteor could be seen as a herald of such noble births or deaths.

But, just my own personal opinion, the imagery of a chariot being pulled by a dragon (singular with three heads or three individual beasts) is not classical. In fact other than the suggestion present in the article by John Canard I can find no other reference to support it.

As near as I can tell, and as far as I can prove at this point in time. It seems that the originator of the idea of a chariot being pulled by either 3 dragons or a singular dragon with 3 heads originated with John Canard and was presented in his short paper, FROM HEAVEN TO EARTH published in 2010. Unless there is an earlier draft I have been unable to locate to this point.
Can't Never Did Nothing Till It Tried!

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