Minimal Results?

The methods and techniques outlined in The Miracle of New Avatar Power by Geof Gray-Cobb

Topic author
Tremegorn
Neophyte
Posts: 46

Minimal Results?

Post#1 » Sat May 05, 2012 8:58 am

I'll start off by saying that I'm fairly new to doing Evocational magic of any kind (hey, that's why I'm here! :D), but I do have experience of several years working with Franz Bardon's IIH to at least step 4, and working with various rituals such as the Middle Pillar Rite and LBRP from the Golden Dawn.

For the last month i've been studying and performing the rituals, as we as laid out in the NAP. I've also kept a fairly detaied log of my workings.

Frankly, I just haven't been seeing results. For instance on one occasion, I did the invocation to Elubatel and actually felt a definite change in the 'room feel', asked my petition of him, and felt the feel of the room change again back to it's previous state when I dismissed the entity.

Now, I thought this meant a 'sucessful' working but that's honestly as far as it will get. I'm not seeing any physical results nor improvement in the areas i've been asking for help in. I try to be as specific as possible in my petitions as well, knowing the vagueness can muddle your results. Considering the success that some members here have had, especially with the NAP, It seems that i'm doing something incorrectly.

The question is, what?

More then a few times i've been completely confident in that my workings were going to produce something, yet beyond a few VERY minor 'coincidental' events on working with the NAP entities, that seems to be the extent of my results.

Any idea on what I might be doing wrong?

User avatar

Slater
Adeptus Exemptus
Posts: 2180

Re: Minimal Results?

Post#2 » Sat May 05, 2012 9:55 am

Hard to tell. I'd be having a bit of a think about what it is you're pushing for and if there might be some other mundane blockages , or if there could be a reason for spirits to simply refuse.

User avatar

raum215
Magister Templi
Posts: 4557

Re: Minimal Results?

Post#3 » Sat May 05, 2012 9:42 pm

relaxing and letting go are key,.. otherwise you are lucky to have ANY result.

do you really understand what those words mean?

in your book, write you own ideas of what you think the NAP ritual to point A means.
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I YHVH do all these things.

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Frater EOE
Practicus
Posts: 103

Re: Minimal Results?

Post#4 » Sun May 06, 2012 3:58 am

Hi Tremegorn - It sounds like you have laid a great foundation for starting your magickal work but I will mimic something I wrote in another thread in order to debug what might be going wrong for you - do you actually own a hard copy of the book? Or are you practicing from a digital (.pdf) copy?
"Be on your guard against all who are subordinate to you ... Trust no brother, know no friend, make no intimates."


Topic author
Tremegorn
Neophyte
Posts: 46

Re: Minimal Results?

Post#5 » Sun May 06, 2012 7:41 am

Thanks for the replies, I'll try to go through them and give a little more information.

In terms of what i'm 'pushing' for, it's simply for either enough funds to get me though my current financial situation, and to visit a friend whom I've come to care very deeply about. Whether that involves the funds coming to me directly, working for it in some way, or something else i haven't considered, matters not so much. I've always seen magic as a form of improving your life, and I definitely think that means removing some of the more mundane life worries from you so you can focus on the more important ones.

I've considered there's possibly a mundane reason for my lack of result, however i'm not entirely sure what if that is the case. I'm not working with other grimores at the moment, nor doing anything else beyond a basic daily ritual set (usually consisting of at minimum the LBRP and some time of meditation, plus the middle pillar rite and one or two other things depending on time and my personal feelings.)

It's entirely possible that I haven't been putting enough effort into the "point A" part of the NAP ritual, but at it's core it seems to be a guided meditation and to some minor degree an attunement or synergy with not only the Judeo-Christian godhead (ANKAR YHVH, after all) and Arzel, as some sort of gatekeeper for the NAP operations. In fact, my results have been about equal in the last month whether doing the ritual as lined in the NAP, or meditating with the intent of 'preparing' myself for the magical workings.

I'm going to be attempting this specific working again in the next day or two. I'll definitely spend extra effort in the relaxation phase this time and see if it makes any difference in my results.

To answer Frater EOE, I'm just using the digital (pdf) version of the book. I've read in other threads that some have had zero success with the pdf yet perfect results with the physical book; and i'd be happy to experiment with such, however purchasing the book at it's current Amazon prices is definitely beyond what I can afford right now.


djenkins
Practicus
Posts: 102

Re: Minimal Results?

Post#6 » Sun May 06, 2012 7:50 am

I've had better results since physically cleansing myself and the area I practice in, I have also been putting the Spiritual Cleansing book by Draja Mickaharic into operation and so far have had excellent results compared with others that have not produced any results to speak of.


tai
Adeptus Minor
Posts: 653

Re: Minimal Results?

Post#7 » Sun May 06, 2012 9:00 am

I suspect raum215 nailed your problem. Possibility your prior experience holds you back from comprehending the potent simplicity of NAP.

This is a structure I like to use:

LBRP > NAP Relaxation Ritual > NAP Central Pillar > NAP Bornless Ritual (recite 3x) > [insert whatever NAP ritual you are working on] > “Coming Back” from NAP (p. 67). Repeat daily in the appropriate planetary hour and phase of the Moon for at least 7 days.

Some practitioners like to throw in the Elubatel Chant for Success and Dee Hay Thooth Seal of Success on top of whatever NAP ritual they are working on but I feel this only confuses things.

Also when I first started with NAP, I went through an intense phase of uncrossing/cleansing myself and then started seeing results.

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Frater EOE
Practicus
Posts: 103

Re: Minimal Results?

Post#8 » Sun May 06, 2012 9:14 am

Thanks for the speedy reply Tremegorn - I've come to realize that the actual NAP book is a very strong talisman in and of itself and while others here may disagree with me I strongly suggest getting a copy before writing the system off as a failure (consider it a kind of prerequisite for the work - it's akin to working any other system without the tools necessary (for example using a circle, ring, lamen etc to contact the goets) without the physical book you could be potentially setting yourself up for some form of failure). Now while some people may be able to get away without using tools and props and may get terrific results - as we are all at varying levels of our magickal journey, it is important to give ourselves the best chance we can at achieving the results we are chasing. That is why sometimes it is better to go overkill and all out and have more resources and tools than you need (just in case you need them) - then and only then once you have it down pat, you can always start to slowly remove the things you really don't need and start experimenting.

The energy you expend in getting the book (including having to fork out the cash to procure it) starts setting the wheels in motion and shows the dedication you are willing to put into it. If you spend $50 on ordering the book today by the time it arrives you will already be in the mindset that it is going to work for you. I can personally vouch (as can probably dozens of people on this board) for the voracity of NAP, not only with the speed that the results come but with just how powerful it really is and with the foundations of your training thus far, you definitely shouldn't have any problems doing the rites. I can also assure you that you will get your purchase price back plus a whole lot more using this system (and if it still doesn't work - I guess you could always resell it to get your money back, with the exposure we have given NAP - I'm sure you won't have a problem finding a suitable buyer).

It might even be worthwhile using whatever other techniques or systems YOU have come across that work to even just help you to source the book for a reasonable and fair price. From your post you state that you are doing these rituals to help with some financial issues you are having but I have seen copies on ebay for as little as $16.50 (and while that may even be out of your means at the moment) keep searching and you will stumble across a copy when it is meant to be. Also as a side note - just be prepared that while you think you may need the finances etc to meet this person you are fond of, the universe might be holding you back for your own good for some reason only hindsight will reveal...

Let us know how you get on :) In LVX - EoE
"Be on your guard against all who are subordinate to you ... Trust no brother, know no friend, make no intimates."


summerland
Adeptus Exemptus
Posts: 2305

Re: Minimal Results?

Post#9 » Mon May 07, 2012 11:54 am

Tremegorn wrote:I'll start off by saying that I'm fairly new to doing Evocational magic of any kind (hey, that's why I'm here! :D), but I do have experience of several years working with Franz Bardon's IIH to at least step 4, and working with various rituals such as the Middle Pillar Rite and LBRP from the Golden Dawn.

For the last month i've been studying and performing the rituals, as we as laid out in the NAP. I've also kept a fairly detaied log of my workings.

Frankly, I just haven't been seeing results. For instance on one occasion, I did the invocation to Elubatel and actually felt a definite change in the 'room feel', asked my petition of him, and felt the feel of the room change again back to it's previous state when I dismissed the entity.

Now, I thought this meant a 'sucessful' working but that's honestly as far as it will get. I'm not seeing any physical results nor improvement in the areas i've been asking for help in. I try to be as specific as possible in my petitions as well, knowing the vagueness can muddle your results. Considering the success that some members here have had, especially with the NAP, It seems that i'm doing something incorrectly.

The question is, what?

More then a few times i've been completely confident in that my workings were going to produce something, yet beyond a few VERY minor 'coincidental' events on working with the NAP entities, that seems to be the extent of my results.

Any idea on what I might be doing wrong?

Elubatel is a different breed from the rest. One thing I noticed about Elubatel when I first started working with him. Yes, that is a good sign you felt the change in the room when invoking Elubatel, That means he was present.But.... That doesnt mean you took the right approach to him. I normally before I invoke him summon him and talk about what I want to do and how I want to go about achieving my goals before the invocation.

And your feelings of sincerity and respect will be the first thing he notices. I have always for some reason had a feeling of being very humble. One thing I notice he likes is Psalms 23.

Many times I had him appear and just stand there just looking at me like when are you going to get it right?
"Ni neart go cur le cheile "

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mrblack
Adeptus Minor
Posts: 813
Contact:

Re: Minimal Results?

Post#10 » Tue May 08, 2012 3:32 pm

@Tremegorn

So you're doing a ritual for money issues? Why didn't you use Nitika instead?
And try to solve one problem at a time since you are just starting. :)

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