Why Do We Command the Entities/Spirits in NAP?

[Omnis Validus]

However, as what Slater mentioned, it's about communicating your intent clearly - that's
the key to making it work. I can be respectful and make my intent clearly, heck - I can
chant the entities name (like how I did in my previous success story) and still get results
with that method.

Words are just words and like in mundane side of communication, one aspect of the
whole process of communication.

Exactly, it is all about communicating your intent clearly. The words are representative of collective and individual concepts, and intentions. A word like "request" implies the option for either approval or denial at the discretion of the person being petitioned (in this case the angel.) This is not a very specific word, and imo it isn't a particularly good one to use for this. The words do matter, and the definition you have of them matters even more.

Many people have a problem with "commanding angels," which is why this thread was started...and the major reason for this is the personal definition one has of the word "command." I see this word as implying a specific action that must be done, no room for error.. like issuing a command on a computer system. Most people connect this word with concepts of oppression, dominance, control, etc. Because it is most often used in that context.

I'm all for respect, 100%...so long as you are properly communicating your intentions, you can use whatever words you want and be completely successful. However, it is very important to know what you're saying, what each part of it means to you, and what goes on in your head when you use specific words (in turn knowing what you're actually communicating with your language.) The words we hear and use hold meanings for us that have been programmed since the time we first learned them, and it isn't very easy to break/change that programming.

As an example, if I told you that I think you're beautiful, you're awesome, and you're the best, that would probably make you feel pretty good (reading it probably has less of an effect, but someone who doesn't smile when you call them beautiful will be hard found .) If, on the other hand, I said I thought you were ugly, or a fucking stupid jackass.. the feelings evoked would be far less pleasant. The reaction that almost everyone has to words like these is predetermined, and not under their control, based upon how they've already defined the intent behind the particular word.

X

[summerland]

However, as what Slater mentioned, it's about communicating your intent clearly - that's
the key to making it work. I can be respectful and make my intent clearly, heck - I can
chant the entities name (like how I did in my previous success story) and still get results
with that method.

Words are just words and like in mundane side of communication, one aspect of the
whole process of communication.

Exactly, it is all about communicating your intent clearly. The words are representative of collective and individual concepts, and intentions. A word like "request" implies the option for either approval or denial at the discretion of the person being petitioned (in this case the angel.) This is not a very specific word, and imo it isn't a particularly good one to use for this. The words do matter, and the definition you have of them matters even more.

Many people have a problem with "commanding angels," which is why this thread was started...and the major reason for this is the personal definition one has of the word "command." I see this word as implying a specific action that must be done, no room for error.. like issuing a command on a computer system. Most people connect this word with concepts of oppression, dominance, control, etc. Because it is most often used in that context.

I'm all for respect, 100%...so long as you are properly communicating your intentions, you can use whatever words you want and be completely successful. However, it is very important to know what you're saying, what each part of it means to you, and what goes on in your head when you use specific words (in turn knowing what you're actually communicating with your language.) The words we hear and use hold meanings for us that have been programmed since the time we first learned them, and it isn't very easy to break/change that programming.

As an example, if I told you that I think you're beautiful, you're awesome, and you're the best, that would probably make you feel pretty good (reading it probably has less of an effect, but someone who doesn't smile when you call them beautiful will be hard found .) If, on the other hand, I said I thought you were ugly, or a fucking stupid jackass.. the feelings evoked would be far less pleasant. The reaction that almost everyone has to words like these is predetermined, and not under their control, based upon how they've already defined the intent behind the particular word.

X

I dont have a problem with the word command, I havent had a problem with other spirits using the word command. Elubatel is the only spirit ive had an issue with. Although the problem is not with which word to use the issues are I guess with me on learning myself. Elubatel is what thats about.

[nectanebus2013]

It's just the way magic used to be. Many of the spirits are "lower" in nature and must be commanded or they may do nothing. If you don't like to command, then NAP may not be for you. Go to your local bookstore with prayers to angels. Or pursue visualization - it will be a lot slower to accomplish your miracle.

[summerland]

It's just the way magic used to be. Many of the spirits are "lower" in nature and must be commanded or they may do nothing. If you don't like to command, then NAP may not be for you. Go to your local bookstore with prayers to angels. Or pursue visualization - it will be a lot slower to accomplish your miracle.

I dont think I would call Elubatel lower in nature or any of the Angels in NAP. It is just the way GGC worded it. I reverted back to command. It just the approach and your intent that makes it work.

[Slater]

It's just the way magic used to be. Many of the spirits are "lower" in nature and must be commanded or they may do nothing. If you don't like to command, then NAP may not be for you. Go to your local bookstore with prayers to angels. Or pursue visualization - it will be a lot slower to accomplish your miracle.

99% of the spirits within the NAP are angels.

[summerland]

It's just the way magic used to be. Many of the spirits are "lower" in nature and must be commanded or they may do nothing. If you don't like to command, then NAP may not be for you. Go to your local bookstore with prayers to angels. Or pursue visualization - it will be a lot slower to accomplish your miracle.

Why spend my money at a book store when I can do that for free at home?

[raum215]

I find proper phrasing reveals itself when you try to compose conjurations in other languages.

amar-aniya Elubatel ha-Tzevah ya-malaya mish'ala eli-nadav.

This is followed by the specifics of what you have accomplished. It best translates, according to my skill, to:

"My petition or charge is, Elubatel, that you be appointed to fulfill my desire. My God willing."

The request is not made of Elubatel, but that which turned Elubatel to serve in the assigned role he has. The word "amar" means "charge" - it indicates a LOT more confidence than "command" - it appeals to the agency that Elubatel himself regards and abides by. The word "tzavah" is a homonym for "Tzabha" which is the root of Tzabaoth. This, with an initial prayer is very powerful. It in general gives respect to the chain of command Elubatel is in, and allows that chain of command to best handle an assignment at the level it is best suited to.

People can have issue with "My God willing" but the fact is the NAP is full of god names, and the agencies of god in exactly the same way. Being that "el" in an angels name is the same exercise of the same phoneme, it would be petty to have issue with this.

[Slater]

It's good to see some lore behind that which through trial and error, we found to be true.

[raum215]

Yah, most of the NAP stuff is derived from babylonian talmudic magic, which was great source for some of the western qabala sources. It is why some of it feels powerful, but not exactly the same as "typical" angelic. it is generally the idea that a number of spirits came to be aligned with the forces of magic, and that they serve within the ranks of the "Angels" but they have their own distinct "feel".

Remember that the majority of the magicians who come from the grimoire age believe essentially that ALL spirits either do or will serve that one Agency. And even the ones that antagonize humanity, or reject the divine - are still part of its plan. Thus ALOT of beings which are called forth in books are in fact names of beings that were evoked to align themselves with the "One God in infinite diverse expressions." So, basically Elubatel and his kin are Angels that left the heirarchy of beings worshipped in Babylon to join the Tzabaoth Ha-Shamayim, or "Hosts of Heaven."

[summerland]

I find proper phrasing reveals itself when you try to compose conjurations in other languages.

amar-aniya Elubatel ha-Tzevah ya-malaya mish'ala eli-nadav.

This is followed by the specifics of what you have accomplished. It best translates, according to my skill, to:

"My petition or charge is, Elubatel, that you be appointed to fulfill my desire. My God willing."

The request is not made of Elubatel, but that which turned Elubatel to serve in the assigned role he has. The word "amar" means "charge" - it indicates a LOT more confidence than "command" - it appeals to the agency that Elubatel himself regards and abides by. The word "tzavah" is a homonym for "Tzabha" which is the root of Tzabaoth. This, with an initial prayer is very powerful. It in general gives respect to the chain of command Elubatel is in, and allows that chain of command to best handle an assignment at the level it is best suited to.

People can have issue with "My God willing" but the fact is the NAP is full of god names, and the agencies of god in exactly the same way. Being that "el" in an angels name is the same exercise of the same phoneme, it would be petty to have issue with this.

I like this idea!
Edit: Tzabaoth Ha- Shamayim ( host of Heaven)..... Right?