Only reason why NAP works

[KITTY EMPIRE]

If your mind is highly trained and disciplined then yes you can, however it takes training to get to that point and a firm will. I've manifested things this way, however the biggest problem is what gets manifested. If your thinking a long the lines of The Secret then forget it. What your thinking about is basically sigil magic without the sigil. Just holding your intent firmly in mind while charging it with a strong desire. I've been able to reuse sigil without the sigil (being seen or visualized) after the initial manifestation, just through visualization. You must absolutely want it to happen.

Both concentration and trance bring the subconscious forward. In some paradigms the subconscious cause magic to occur.

No I was not thinking sigil magic, but what the topic was thinking when it was created.
I'm not thinking of nothing in particular, if so, I would say it.

I thought that if you get into trance you are more powerful = have more energy (chi) lol? (edit: no , no, not have, but can put in a goal more, I guess you have to know to collect the energy before ) = visualise the goal, take in the energy, release and watch it happen. Not want it to happen, if youre so powerful you make it happen, like you make your lunch

[redd30]

What your thinking of can be seen in things like telekinesis. Where you just will it to happen.

[SadisticDarkness]

If your mind is highly trained and disciplined then yes you can, however it takes training to get to that point and a firm will. I've manifested things this way, however the biggest problem is what gets manifested. If your thinking a long the lines of The Secret then forget it. What your thinking about is basically sigil magic without the sigil. Just holding your intent firmly in mind while charging it with a strong desire. I've been able to reuse sigil without the sigil (being seen or visualized) after the initial manifestation, just through visualization. You must absolutely want it to happen.

Both concentration and trance bring the subconscious forward. In some paradigms the subconscious cause magic to occur.

No I was not thinking sigil magic, but what the topic was thinking when it was created.
I'm not thinking of nothing in particular, if so, I would say it.

I thought that if you get into trance you are more powerful = have more energy (chi) lol? (edit: no , no, not have, but can put in a goal more, I guess you have to know to collect the energy before ) = visualise the goal, take in the energy, release and watch it happen. Not want it to happen, if youre so powerful you make it happen, like you make your lunch

I believe there is a point in one's occult career where ritual tools are no longer needed to manifest effective, "full-proof" results in the world, and to manifest spirits themselves without any tools, circles or triangles. However, I do not believe anyone on this forum has such a power yet, and if so, they are a few steps away from absolute godhood.

As far as I am concerned, at this point in time, will, or 'energy' alone cannot suffice. There are still protocols which one must adhere to.

[redd30]

I agree, if the mind is not trained to work on a metaphysical level it will not be effective. It won't have the strength and skill to directly effect a change through a focused thought.

[Slater]

I believe there is a point in one's occult career where ritual tools are no longer needed to manifest effective, "full-proof" results in the world, and to manifest spirits themselves without any tools, circles or triangles. However, I do not believe anyone on this forum has such a power yet, and if so, they are a few steps away from absolute godhood.

As far as I am concerned, at this point in time, will, or 'energy' alone cannot suffice. There are still protocols which one must adhere to.

Depends what you're evoking. Once you establish a link if the spirit is cool with it, all you have to do is call sometimes. That's not your choice though...it's not like you can make it happen. Its sort of agreed to. I don't use a triangle or circle. not for angelics anyway.

For example...There is an angel I have been working with for about 5 months and lately I don't even get to finish writing up the oration before it communicates. I'm usually sitting at my desk and haven't even begun the physical part of the working.

Just as an aside; this one never appears in the physical. Expecting that to happen every time is a major flaw in thinking about evocation: And as Aaron Leitch has reminded us: not recognizing when the spirit is there simply because the visual isn't happening can be dangerous. It also frustrates the crap out of spirits who are communicating and you're too hung up on "its not here if I can't see it". I got stuck on that for a while.

Visions (like sudden flashes memories or scenes of stuff that you have never experience but make total sense and are relevant to your working) clairaudience and various other things are just as important as means of communication. Not as cool as a light show...but some spirits just don't roll that way. The bonus of the visual I suppose is that you are less likely to think you're talking to yourself. When you're really in touch...there is little chance of confusing your own thoughts with a spirits "voice".

On the other hand if you think you could be talking to yourself..you probably are. I went off on a bit of tangent there...

[girasol]

I believe there is a point in one's occult career where ritual tools are no longer needed to manifest effective, "full-proof" results in the world, and to manifest spirits themselves without any tools, circles or triangles. However, I do not believe anyone on this forum has such a power yet, and if so, they are a few steps away from absolute godhood.

As far as I am concerned, at this point in time, will, or 'energy' alone cannot suffice. There are still protocols which one must adhere to.

Depends what you're evoking. Once you establish a link if the spirit is cool with it, all you have to do is call sometimes. That's not your choice though...it's not like you can make it happen. Its sort of agreed to. I don't use a triangle or circle. not for angelics anyway.

For example...There is an angel I have been working with for about 5 months and lately I don't even get to finish writing up the oration before it communicates. I'm usually sitting at my desk and haven't even begun the physical part of the working.

Just as an aside; this one never appears in the physical. Expecting that to happen every time is a major flaw in thinking about evocation: And as Aaron Leitch has reminded us: not recognizing when the spirit is there simply because the visual isn't happening can be dangerous. It also frustrates the crap out of spirits who are communicating and you're too hung up on "its not here if I can't see it". I got stuck on that for a while.

Visions (like sudden flashes memories or scenes of stuff that you have never experience but make total sense and are relevant to your working) clairaudience and various other things are just as important as means of communication. Not as cool as a light show...but some spirits just don't roll that way. The bonus of the visual I suppose is that you are less likely to think you're talking to yourself. When you're really in touch...there is little chance of confusing your own thoughts with a spirits "voice".

On the other hand if you think you could be talking to yourself..you probably are. I went off on a bit of tangent there...

@Slater - agree with establishing links with spirits/entities; that's been my experience; also liked your last bit. I've been trying to convince a friend about that lately. That just because you didn't notice the results of a working doesn't mean there weren't any. You might just not be open to the variety of ways the results might manifest. (In this case we were talking about various types of magickal results, including but not limited to evocation.)

[SadisticDarkness]

I believe there is a point in one's occult career where ritual tools are no longer needed to manifest effective, "full-proof" results in the world, and to manifest spirits themselves without any tools, circles or triangles. However, I do not believe anyone on this forum has such a power yet, and if so, they are a few steps away from absolute godhood.

As far as I am concerned, at this point in time, will, or 'energy' alone cannot suffice. There are still protocols which one must adhere to.

Depends what you're evoking. Once you establish a link if the spirit is cool with it, all you have to do is call sometimes. That's not your choice though...it's not like you can make it happen. Its sort of agreed to. I don't use a triangle or circle. not for angelics anyway.

For example...There is an angel I have been working with for about 5 months and lately I don't even get to finish writing up the oration before it communicates. I'm usually sitting at my desk and haven't even begun the physical part of the working.

Just as an aside; this one never appears in the physical. Expecting that to happen every time is a major flaw in thinking about evocation: And as Aaron Leitch has reminded us: not recognizing when the spirit is there simply because the visual isn't happening can be dangerous. It also frustrates the crap out of spirits who are communicating and you're too hung up on "its not here if I can't see it". I got stuck on that for a while.

Visions (like sudden flashes memories or scenes of stuff that you have never experience but make total sense and are relevant to your working) clairaudience and various other things are just as important as means of communication. Not as cool as a light show...but some spirits just don't roll that way. The bonus of the visual I suppose is that you are less likely to think you're talking to yourself. When you're really in touch...there is little chance of confusing your own thoughts with a spirits "voice".

On the other hand if you think you could be talking to yourself..you probably are. I went off on a bit of tangent there...

In your opinion, if you could not view the spirit (assuming it did indeed manifest), would you still issue commands to it?

[Slater]

In your opinion, if you could not view the spirit (assuming it did indeed manifest), would you still issue commands to it?

Absolutely. And follow the whole ceremony as planned including the license to depart and banishing if it's demonic work and that happens to be part of your mode of working. How ever you work...follow the plan you made right to the end.

[summerland]

In your opinion, if you could not view the spirit (assuming it did indeed manifest), would you still issue commands to it?

Absolutely. And follow the whole ceremony as planned including the license to depart and banishing if it's demonic work and that happens to be part of your mode of working. How ever you work...follow the plan you made right to the end.

slater, i havent tried the trance part i guess because im new at this and i think maybe a tape recording would help to put me into a semi trance. i watched the movie the secret and applied my visualizations the same way. ive only done the rituals twice so far and got some results just minor things. do you seem much calmer since doing nap? not that i have road rage but im more patience while driving behind someone going under the speed limit etc.. also have you tried to read into someone mind like if standing in line and make clerk go faster? i having a hard time pronouncing the names will that harm the spells or invocations?